Problems w/ event pitch shifting & Rec. in 96/24 w/ delta 1010's

TubeLover wrote on 1/26/2005, 10:29 PM
I was recording a band and doing a group vocal part and in order to get a true as possible crowd sound... I had each member of the band (a 3 piece) lay down 4 trax about 3 to 5 seconds long. after listening to it, the band felt it sounded a little childish in pitch so i highlighted all 12 events and hit the minus sign(-) to drop the pitch, and when i hit play it played it back and then just sort of sounded like a digital version of a tape machine slowing down then crashed. Auto save didn't work either. Any time i played it back it would do that. I had to send them to lunch and render them 1 by 1.
also...with a system like mine you'd think I could record 16 tracks at once in 96/24 without a crash right? What am i doing wrong? I'm running in pc standard, nothing but vegas on the drive, recording files folder set to a different drive, all usb and other attachments disabled in bios.What am i doing wrong??? Is there a computer that i can buy or have made especially for vegas 5.0 that will work with 2 delta 1010's and allow me to record 16 tracks in 96/24 without crashing??My system works fine in 48/24 if i don't use pitch shift on more than one track. Any tips and answers appreciated.
Pentium4 3.2Ghz 800fsb
Gigabyte GA81K1100 w/ Intel 875P chipset
2x 10,000 rpm 36g SATA drives
1 120g ide drive
ati Radeon 9600se video card
1 gig dual 400 ram
2 delta 1010's
Vegas 5.0d


SonyMLogan wrote on 1/27/2005, 9:40 AM

Bottom line: Don't use time stretch during a recording session if you can help it.

Are you using ASIO? If so, what's the latency?

The time stretch can be a CPU hog. It tends to induce periodic gapping if you have very low latency settings. The more time stretched events playing at one time, the more likely this is to occur. This can be reduced somewhat by choosing a less-intensive time stretch algorithm in the “Stretch Attributes” combo in the “Audio Event” tab in the event properties.

The Stretch Attributes settings least likely to induce gapping are:


SPEECH: A08, A09


DRUMS: A17, A18, A19

On my Dual Xeon, I get 18 Tracks of gapless playback with A02, and 25 Tracks with A06.

The default setting of A03 produces 23 gapless tracks.

Almost makes you want do request a track-freeze feature, doesn’t it? :)

Ben  wrote on 1/27/2005, 10:14 AM
> Almost makes you want do request a track-freeze feature, doesn’t it? :) <

Way to go Matt! Be great if we could freeze those VSTi's too... ;)

My fingers are so crossed about the audio-feature potential of Vegas 6, it's beginning to hurt.

Vegas - The Big Gamble wrote on 1/28/2005, 4:44 AM
Track freeze? Now we're talking!! But yes it should obviously be for plug-ins too.

I'm very interested in this detail we're getting about different algorithms. I get the feeling that we could really be helped by being able to tell more about what's going on under the bonnet especially where cpu use is concerned. I've recently abandoned ProTools (now that PCs have reached this performance level) and I miss being able to see at a glance where I'm "pushing the limits"

It would be a very significant step to be able to get a plug-in overview showing at-a-glance usage of resources and help us optimize where necessary.

SonyMLogan - maybe you can prove my local music shops wrong when they suggest the audio side of Vegas will go no further! Things like cut/copy & paste for plug-ins would make such a difference.

Rednroll wrote on 1/28/2005, 10:19 AM
In the meantime to get you by for a track Freeze feature. Try right clicking on the Event, and select "Apply Non-realtime Event FX". From here you can choose the Sony Pitch Shift Plugin which has all the A## choices Matt Listed, and adjust your pitch there. Then when you hit OK, the event get's processed with the plugin, thus frozen and is UNDOABLE for the Undo menu item. You could also do the same thing if you own Sound Forge, by selecting "Open Copy in Sound Forge" from Vegas.

"SonyMLogan - maybe you can prove my local music shops wrong when they suggest the audio side of Vegas will go no further!"

Matt and Peter are two of the engineers responsible for the audio side features of Vegas, and seem to be still working on the development of Vegas, so stop shopping at your local music store, because they obviously don't know what the hell they're talking about. I know I usually don't purchase any equipment from a sales person when I hear crapola spewing from their mouths and they don't know I'm a little more knowledgable then they're average customer. Just tell them, you've decided to start to buy your music equipment online now at, or, or, and listen to them start to spew nonsense again, about customer service etc.

Ben  wrote on 1/28/2005, 11:26 AM
I'd assume drewsonix meant that in a metaphorical sense, ie, Vegas unfortunately isn't currently held in much stead in the audio industry; we all know it should be.

"Vegas - the misunderstood DAW".

Vegas - The Big Gamble wrote on 1/29/2005, 3:03 PM
Hey RednRoll - I should clarify that my local music store seems one of the more informed ones who really do know what Vegas is all about and actually have it on display - which seems pretty rare.

But like many other dealers - AND plenty of people here on the forum - they still fear the audio may not develop significantly. As I understand it there is no official statement from Sony to suggest it will!

I have to say I can totally understand why some people get suspicious when a new release only adds a video feature and doesn't correct audio bugs. Stability & correct functionality over new features any time!

That said, I personally *am* hopeful that audio will move forward and I meant my statement as an encouragement to those who, within Sony, are pushing for more audio & musical features on our behalf. I'm sure Peter would love to get Rewire into Vegas 6 whilst the corporate preference may be for more video features.

But back to the quality of info/advice in music shops and their perception of Vegas... I'm a little surprised you cite GuitarCenter here. Whilst they are a good place to buy in price terms, they didn't have a great deal of knowledge on the best audio interfaces to use with Vegas when I called them!

Meanwhile have you read the description of Vegas on their online-purchase site? "Vegas+DVD includes: Vegas 4.0" - not a good start!! They then highlight loads of video & DVD features and mention *nothing* about automation, pitch changing, plug-ins etc. It may not be crapola, but that's hardly a good push from an audio dealer and I agree - they *are* one of the best retailers!

Yet I see Tracktion mentioned, bundled and rated all over the place.. and I think it must be because it's "all about audio". Also it's clearly a product which is set to expand and grow and that fact is well publicised. Meanwhile stores go on raving about ProTools 002/LE (even if they haven't used it) and look blank if you ask about Vegas.

It's just so sad to think that the standard line might become: "So there's ProTools - or if you don't want a hardware-dependent system then try Tracktion!"

Rednroll wrote on 1/30/2005, 9:23 AM
I definately know where you're coming from. Not all users have been using Vegas since Vegas Pro v1.0 as I have and seen it's development on the audio side. Vegas development on the audio side is usually behind the rest of the competion, in a lot of aspects. It is also ahead on other aspects. Vegas was the first app to put Disc-at-Once CD authoring tools in a multi-track application, which today as far as doing mastering work and assembling CDs together is a Godsend feature for myself. Maybe Vegas is behind on features like Rewire because the development is split up between video features and audio features? Or maybe the development is a little behind due to they spend more time on doing the feature correctly and making the user interface user friendly. Alls I know is that when Vegas finally gets a feature implemented, be it a couple versions later than the the competion it seems to be implemented better than the competition.

As primarily an audio user of Vegas, I look at Vegas this way now. I use to despise the video features, because I didn't see an audio feature that I found eccential to my work flow. I now embrace the Video features. The video users have allowed Vegas to thrive in that community. So while now on the audio side Vegas seems lagging behind the competition, there will come a day when the boudries between audio and video users will eventually fade and both audio users and video users will be looking for a "multimedia" solution. At that time Vegas will be 10 years ahead of the competition on both sides. You can see this starting to happening today, when Adobe purchased Cool Edit Pro. Then Pinnacle purchased Steinberg.....but now sold them to Yamaha. But I will take a good guess Vegas will be pushing Protools one day, where you will eventually see a combo Protools/Avid system being developed by Digidesign. For now I can live with the fact Vegas is our little secret as far as it's audio features and being an audio user. Vegas has not been standind still on the audio feature development. Here's a list of Audio only features Vegas has gotten since v3.0.

1-Project trimming/media consolidation
2-Dynamic RAM previews
3-Create and edit Windows Media 8 (.wmv, wma) files, with Web metadata including closed captioning
4-On-the-fly metadata arrangement (import existing script copy and place command markers during playback)
5-Edit Web command templates in XML database format
6-Video CD and multimedia CD burning
7-Red Book CD layout and burning, complete with printable ISRC and UPC codes. Import existing CD Architect projects.
8-Autosave/crash recovery tools
9-CD audio extraction
10-JKL keyboard scrub, and linear timeline scrub
11-Enhanced event grouping
12-Extended control over default track properties
13-Smooth audio and video track envelopes, crossfades, and event envelopes: a whole new sound and look
14-Five audio panning modes, including constant power balance
15-Audio channel control for stereo audio files
16-Invert audio phase for events and tracks
17-Voice-optimized time stretching

1-5.1 surround mixing tools
2-DirectX® plug-in effect automation
3-Over 30 real-time DirectX® effects
4-ASIO audio driver support
5-Recording input monitoring
6-Master, auxiliary, and assignable effects audio bus tracks
7-Enhanced audio time stretching
8-Improved effects bypass
9-Enhanced ripple editing model
10-Keyboard event trimming
11-Event shuffling
12-Split-screen effect bypass and clipboard previews
13-Split-screen A/B previewing when slip-trimming
14-Pre/post toggle for video event effects
15-Enhanced audio/video scrub speeds
16-Media markers and regions in events
17-Expanded scrub range
18-Preview the cursor position with pre-/post-roll
19-Joystick control of faders, surround panning, and the color wheel controls in the color corrector plug-ins
20-Select events that refer to a specific file in the Media Pool
21-Drag-and-drop transfer of bins between open copies of Vegas
22-AC-3 encoding (requires the Sony Pictures Digital AC-3 Encoder)
23-Application scripting
24-Windows Media 9 support, including surround encoding
25-RealMedia 9
26-Improved CD extraction, burning, and drive support

1-Support for control surfaces including the Mackie Control Universal.
2-Envelope automation recording.
3-Envelope point thinning.
4-Improved punch-in recording with automatic input monitoring.
5-Improved audio time stretching.
6-ACID loop support on the timeline.
7-ACID time stretching for ACIDized loops.
8-Support for 5.1-channel audio plug-ins on the master bus.
9-Film-style 5.1 surround panning.
10-Downmix monitoring so you can test your 5.1 surround project in different listening environments.
11-Pre/post volume for busses routed to hardware outputs.
12-Bus-to-bus routing.
13-Enhanced interface, including Windows XP theme support.
14-Multiple docking windows.
15-User configurable window layout.
16-Customizable keyboard shortcuts.
17-Subclip creation.
18-Real-time audio/video event reverse.
19-You can now drag the edit cursor to change its position in the timeline and Trimmer window when the Allow edit cursor to be dragged check box on the General tab of the Preferences dialog is selected.
20-A marker tool that you can use to move or delete multiple selected markers.
21-Automation recording for track envelopes and keyframes.
22-Audio volume/opacity event envelope changes are applied to all selected events.
23-Networked rendering.
24-Enhanced application scripting.

Regards Red
Vegas - The Big Gamble wrote on 1/30/2005, 7:47 PM
Now you see THAT's the feature list they should have on the GuitarCenter website!!

On another note looking back at the earlier post re a track freeze feature and the tip using "Apply Non-realtime Event FX" - it made me think...

We could do well to have a categorized "tips" database derived from ideas mentioned on the forum to encourage and guide those who haven't really discovered the full flexibility of Vegas.

There are so many good ideas mentioned here - ways to take advantage of some of the unique benefits and some that highlight of the differences in working practices from other systems that can leave new users confused.

My favourite came from the discussion about auto-input monitoring where, as we know, you can still hear the recorded track on playback - unlike traditional multitracks. I hadn't considered the benefit of this implementation until I went recording on location without a console.. and found it really helped! Getting all the users' suggestions in one place would be great.