Producing WMV-HD for Kiss DP-600

mdopp wrote on 10/11/2006, 11:16 AM
Ok, after having spent nearly one week of my life and hundreds of hours rendering time trying to get a WMV-HD file out of Vegas that would play back smoothly on my new Kiss DP-600 HD-player I think somebody might take advantage of my findings, so here they come.

The goal is to generate a WMV-HD file from recordings of Sony's HDR-FX1 camera with the best possible quality. In other words: to preserve the camera's resolution 1440x1080/25i as much as possible.
However the DP-600 apparently doesn't recognize non-square pixels, so 1920x1080 is the required output resolution.
Unfortunately Vegas' WMV renderer can not handle interlaced files (not even in the Advanced Profile), so 25p is the name of the game. For deinterlacing I recommend to use the Smart Deinterlace filter by Mike Crash - but that has already been discussed elsewhere on this forum.

Very important: The compression buffer is set to 8 secs as a default but that is much too large for the DP-600 (possibly due to lack of memory) and will result in audio distortions and jerky playback.
Reduce the playback buffer to 4 secs and keyframe interval also to 4 secs.
Video smoothness should be left at 90 or reduced to 80 if lots of motion occur.
Bit rate should be 12M (or 10M to save some space).

Audio should be CBR, 192 kbps, 48 kHz or 5.1 surround (but also with 48 kHz as this is the sampling rate of the camera's audio).
If you avoid 24 bit and use 16bit instead, the DP-600 will output the audio digitally to any AV-Receiver which may be better than using the internal audio decoder.

That's all. Hope it helps. Comments welcome, of course.


DavidMcKnight wrote on 10/11/2006, 11:41 AM
Martin, are you playing this WMV-HD file from a dvd, streaming it from a pc, or something else?
mdopp wrote on 10/12/2006, 10:24 AM
David, I am playing the videos from an external 250 GB Seagate USB-Drive. Works like a charm.
Laurence wrote on 10/12/2006, 12:04 PM
I believe that you'd get just as clear a picture if you went 1280x720x25p. The extra pixels at 1920 are just interpolated anyway and the smaller dimentions would mean less harsh compression.
mdopp wrote on 10/13/2006, 10:50 AM
Yep, 720p may very well be equally good.
I was just trying to keep vertical resolution during the whole process as the FX1 is 1080 lines and my new full-hd 47" LCD-tv will also have 1080 lines.
Extrapolating from 1440 to 1920 is no big deal so in theory 1920x1080 should provide the best resolution without scaling.
I'll let you know next week when the TV arrives ;-)

P.s.: 15 Mbps is also possible when the playback buffer is reduced to 3 secs instead of 4. I've tried that recently and it looked even better than 12 mbps (on my computer screen, at least).

mdopp wrote on 11/2/2006, 11:10 AM
I have now tested WMV-HD playback from the DP-600 via HDMI to my new Toshiba 47" full-hd (1080i) television. I should add that the TV has a "true scan" mode in which every single pixel is mapped 1:1.
In that environment 1080i looks MUCH better than 720p and I am glad I did not rescale the clips from the HDR-FX1 camera. There are no flickering lines in the interlaced picture. I can have both horizontal and vertial full resolution with 1080 lph (tested with a self-made picture where one black line is followed by one white line and so on in every direction). Looks amazing.
15 mbps for WMV-HD is a very good bitrate. Couldn't find any artifacts.
Laurence wrote on 11/2/2006, 1:44 PM
Can you get good results reading of a DVD-R?
RBartlett wrote on 11/2/2006, 2:51 PM
If you wish to address the failings in the WMV render options/functionality you see in Vegas - you might try using debugmode's frameserver and running that with the timeline directly into WMEncoder. The WMEncoder is usually a few steps ahead of any of the application plug-in (SDK) interfaces to WindowsMedia formats. It isn't Sony's fault really.

Non-square PAR, interlaced and keener control on the bitrate (e.g 2-pass) might be available to you. Some of these features may even work and work with both WMP and the Kiss - given a fair wind! Microsoft nearly know their video these days.

With your attention to detail, the resultant profile could be shared amongst other DP-600 owners wishing to enjoy their 1080i work.

Thanks for sharing the story thus far.
corug7 wrote on 11/2/2006, 5:17 PM
Yes, maintain interlacing should be available to you in WME. I use it all the time producing WMV files for our SAN. Just be sure you have the correct field setting for the type of video you are feeding it.
mdopp wrote on 11/3/2006, 10:19 PM
Actually I have tried to use the latest edition of Microsoft's Windows Media Encoder to produce 1080_25i instead of the 1080_25p which comes out of Vegas.
However the program interface was very slowly responding and obviously didn't like my (admittedly very large) Cineform AVIs at all (switching from one menu to another took several minutes !). So I gave up on this.

I have not tried to play back the files from DVD-R on the DP-600, but I guess it should be possible because the drive in the kiss-player is much faster than 1x.

Laurence wrote on 11/24/2006, 12:22 PM
Martin, I looked up your post again because I found that the Kiss DP-600 will play back HD files in both the WMV and DivX formats. Now that you've had the unit a while, can you give us more insight into it and whether or not you recommend it?
Laurence wrote on 11/24/2006, 12:26 PM
Here is a link to the Kiss DP-600 player: