Progressive mode - better end results?

eddydde wrote on 1/27/2004, 4:09 PM
The manual that came with my DV cam, a VX2000, says that shooting in Progressive Mode gives a higher resolution.

Is it feasable then that if I shoot in progressive mode, edit in vegas4, and do a firewire via the DV cam to my video recorder that I will get a better VHS (PAL) copy/resolution than if I shoot in standard, non progressive mode?

Eddydde

Comments

GaryKleiner wrote on 1/27/2004, 5:40 PM
If you are shooting things that don't move...go for it!

Progressive mode will have a smear-look with normal types of motion.

Gary
Spot|DSE wrote on 1/27/2004, 6:31 PM
No, that's not so. (the manual) There are several articles on this subject around. With most any camera, you sacrifice either pixels or framerates for progressive scan, faux progressive scan, or frame mode, depending on the camera. You get a smoother image, but at a sacrifice to what? The VX1000 shoots true progressive scan, but at a frame rate of 15fps. So you are losing quite a bit of image there. You'll get a different kind of image with some nice blur, but it's also half the information, making it challenging in post.
rmack350 wrote on 1/27/2004, 6:44 PM
I've been kind of curious about this since I spend so much time grabbing stills out of footage for use in web pages.

My feeling has been that progressive would usually be crisper for our table-top shoots. I'd settle for the slower frame rate if I could set a faster shutter to slow down motion blurs.

It's all idle speculation, though. It isn't going to happen on our shoots anytime soon.

Rob Mack
Spot|DSE wrote on 1/27/2004, 7:07 PM
Interestingly enough, the new market trend is progressive shutter which emulates progressive scan by using a mechanical shutter. Haven't seen this yet, I'm sure someone here has.
But it is supposed to deliver very clear stills/images.
drdespair wrote on 1/28/2004, 1:46 AM
I have the TRV 60 which has something like that, I am quite happy with the 25p that I get on it, its very crisp and reminds me a bit of film, I still find it amazing that when looking at the video feed in Vega you dont see any jagies associated with interlaced video. (although technicly even the P video is still I only they basicly capture thesame image for both line) usualy when you use P mode the camera utilizes the entire CCD for capture so if you have a 2.0 mega on-board the images are preaty cool. Unfortunalty its still not a very well known feature, sony's explanation for it is basicaly as a still grab mode from fast action events although it record the info on the tape, they later recommend that you pick the frame you want and transfer it to the stick.

D.
RalphM wrote on 1/28/2004, 6:06 AM
As mentioned above, the VX2000's progressive mode is 15fps and gives a pretty coarse motion look. It was never intended to be used in motion video.

That said, I filmed some kids on a zip wire using both the 15fps progressive and the 30fps interlaced, and with some heavy metal rock added, the 15fps has a very edgy feel that fits well. The 30 fps is a little tame in comparison.

What the 15fps is really great for is a capture device for stills. You can control shutter and aperature and get some really great shots for use in video. Since you are shooting at the rate of 900 stills per minute, you will find some gems in there. Just don't try to blow them up to an 8X10 photo print.
mfhau wrote on 2/1/2004, 2:49 AM
I can't find the answer to this anywhere:
Does anyone know why JVC dropped prgressive scan from their consumer cams - - last one I remember having it was the DV3000. Is there somthing faulty in those cameras that have it or is it now something to be treasured as it is only available in the more expensive cams?

It's hard to find anything on this - something which was a major design change.

Also does anyone know of some sort of comparison matrix or web site that compares historically the mutitude of JVC DV Cams. For example you find tons of material comparing and evaluating all the Nikon SLRs and lenses ever made - but not so it seems for video cams.

I am curious
farss wrote on 2/1/2004, 3:41 AM
If you really want progressive scan there is only one camera, the Panasonic DVX100. Even if you don't want progressive it's still a very good camera with more control over the image than you may ever need. The new model has some worthwhile improvements as well.

JVC do a have a camera that'll shoot progressive, the GR-HD10 but there are some pretty serious downsides to that unit.
musman wrote on 2/1/2004, 9:13 PM
I have a sony pd150 and tried out the progressive mode, knoing it would be 15 fps. I may have done something wrong, but it looked terrible. On both a regular tv and my computer lcd it looked significatly worse (ie fuzzier and lower resolution seeming) than 60i footage.
Perhaps I did something wrong, but I consider the 15p mode totally worthless.
farss wrote on 2/1/2004, 10:50 PM
Main use of these modes is for making a high speed stills sequence.
mfhau wrote on 2/2/2004, 1:33 AM
Marquat, you're right - the 2000 seems to be the end of the consumer line for progressive scan with JVC - I have the DV9800EA (Pal Version) and think that the progressive scan is brilliant - it allows for the capturing of still frames of high video quality from which great special effects/fades/disolves/track motion sequences etc etc can be done. Yes I paid around US$1500 and agree the later JVC models are cheaper but no progressive. And for the Sonyphiles - the JVC does 25 fps in PAL and 30 in NTSC and the quality is great.
I suppose - unless you're into something like Vegas and are attemptig to produce great watchable A/V productions the avarage punter doesn't need prog scan - I'll treasure mine.

mfhau