I'm sure thats it, because I was developing variations on a theme. Now then, why would this stall Vegas? Or shouldn't it?

G

It shouldnt. But removing the subclip from the project pane should fix it.

Speculation time... maybe it needs to recreate the subclip on loading the project? Could be a bug?

Paul.

A subclip probably has a reference to the clip it was created from.
if the original clib is deleted from the project but the subclip left in the project, that could create a situation for things to get messy.

The curious piece of information from our experiments last light was the following test, I'll call it Test 1:

TEST1:
1) Delete the offending clip from Project Media.
2) Save and close project.
3) Open Project, all is well.
4) Put clip deleted at 1) back into project.
5) Save, close, open, problem is back again.

Based on that one would suspect perhaps something odd about the clip itself.
So another experiment.

TEST2:
1) Create new project.
2) Repeat process of adding same clip to T/L etc.
3) No problems at all.

Test 2 indicates fairly strongly that the problem has nothing to do with the clip itself.

My gut feeling is that something has become messed up in the project file itself.
The results from Test 1 indicate that simply deleting all reference to the clip and restoring the project to a seemingly healthy state does not get the project entirely clean.

Bob.

It sounds like you guys got together on Skype. Given the results of your two tests, I agree with Bob's assessment. Here are some possible steps to try to fix the problem without having to re-build the entire project.

1. Save the project as an EDL file. Open this in Excel (use the delimited option and specify "semicolon" as the delimeter). Scan the column for the file names and see if one of them is screwed up.

2. Another idea. Remove the file that is causing the problem. Next, click on the lightning bolt in the project properties to remove the file (if you didn't do this between step #1 and step #2 in your Test#1 last night, then you should repeat that test and make sure to remove the reference to the file by clicking on the lightning bolt). Then, re-name that file to some other name (or make a copy, but use a new name for the copy). Finally, import the file with the new name and use it in your project. Try to save and then re-open that project. The idea in this approach is that perhaps there is still some screwed-up reference to the original file name that doesn't get removed, even when you remove the file from the project. By re-naming the file, that reference never gets used, and therefore the project might work correctly.

3. If you have used any VEG files on the timeline, you need to go back through those to also see if there is some reference to the suspect file. Perhaps you have somehow created a "circular reference" or similar situation. This can happen in any scheme that uses pointers to media.

Having said all that, based on your tests, I too expect that the problem is bad media. As you know, I posted an AVCHD clip that immediately crashes Vegas 11. Everyone who helped me by putting that clip into their Vegas 11 also had it crash. The same clip worked just fine in Vegas 8.0c. I have also found that I get all sorts of strange things to happen if I put about eighty clips (one hour of video) from my Sony CX-700V AVCHD 60p camera onto the timeline. After a few minutes of editing, everything slows down. Thus, it appears that problems can sometimes happen, not because of a specific bad clip, but because of interactions between large numbers of clips. I have reported this to SCS but, after seven weeks of waiting, the response I got two days ago was completely worthless and indicated that their tech support people are unwilling and/or unable to look into the problem.

If you are still using Vegas 11 I once again urge you, and anyone else who reads my posts, to forget about using Vegas 11. I'm not even sure I would recommend using Vegas 10 (unless you need 3D). Stick with Vegas 9 or earlier. I realize this advice doesn't help you with your current problem, but hopefully my advice in #2 above will help you get through this existing project. The key thing is to make sure that the reference is not to the same file.

P.S. ...

... one more idea ... this one helped me eventually work through my one and only attempt to use Vegas 11 in a real project (a two hour project that turned into a three day adventure). My solution was to take the various files that Vegas 11 choked on, and first render them to Cineform. You can use uncompressed, MXF, or whatever other lossless or nearly-lossless format you want. Then, use that in place of the native file. I think there is a high likelihood that this will let you finish the existing project.

"Having said all that, based on your tests, I too expect that the problem is bad media"

Two things that would suggest otherwise.

1) Our Test 2.
2) The file / clip in question was rendered out of Vegas 10.

Further to that, my understanding based on what Grazie had to say was he has used the exact same process of rendering a QT clip out of V10 and using it in V11 without an issue many times. I believe based on my Skype session with Grazie that the reason he is using QT wrapped media is he can have a small file size that supports an alpha channel.

Bob.

Woah! - Thanks Gentlemen.

OK, John's 1] so far . . .

a) There are 181 "files" in this VEG

b) The EDL is showing 5 "files" without filenames. They have "length" but no filenames. Is that at all possible?

c) I have: veg, avi, wav, mpg and MXF files but no, (wait for it). . MOV files! NADA! - I can see it in Project Media Pane, and it has this USED Count of 1.

d) I don't know what I need to look for as being "screwed"? Apart from the files with noname - I just get an empty double quote: "" : with nothing between the Quote marks. I've got 5 instances of them.

Being pragmatic, and careful, I had already converted much of the project to lossless Lagarith. So at least the majority of the project is in the bag. That which are Nested as Veggies are those items the client may wish to alter. I'll interrogate them too. But to the best of my knowledge = memory, they wouldn't have included this MOV file.

I've had no issues playing Vegas-Rendered MOV files. I use them because I get the transparent BG. And this MOV file plays fine. I can even place it on the Timeline to play - which it does. No AVCHD in any of my workflow.

The remainder of John's checklist I'll drill through later today.

Cheers

G

HAH! John's No.2 . . . .

Well, I have another errant file that will not be lightning-bolted away. And that too has an existing USED Count of 1 too. And that file IS a VEG. And that VEG was created to create this MOV.

So, I have a MOV file that refuses to be zapped; I have a VEG file that also refuses to be ZAPPED and both say that they are in use, when the EDL, Edit Details and GoTo reports they aren't.

Meanwhile, their "content" has already been used, included and rendered to a lossless Lagarith AVI. Meaning that they would not now have reason to be seen as being used.

All this must've been rearing its head back in VP10e. I migrated this Project into VP11. I did this to test out some theories I was having about Memory Overheads/Leakages. Which, from my findings are now being seen to be fruitless. However, maybe this Lighting Zapping device is showing up something "other"? So maybe not completely fruitless.

I'm going to get this Project finished. I think both Bob and John know my relentless spirit over this stuff. What I may have stumbled on could be beneficial to others too.

I ain't no programmer: I film and edit. And with a following wind, hopefully make engaging videos for clients who pay for my services. Simples!

Cheers Guys,

Grazie

If you created a subclip from the original video and not using the video.
It is NOT on the TL - but used in a subclip
the Project Media will show use of 1 but the event details will show 0

Udi

Under that scenario, Udi, should I be seeing the Name of the File in Edit Details with a "0" next to it? Is that what you are saying?

G

You said "event details" - not Edit Details. Where do I see Event Details?

G

I meant Edit Details - Event.
Yes - If you created a subclip and then only use the subclip - the scenario you mentioned should happen.
Project Media - use 1 (in Subclip) and can't deleted as the subclip is in use.
Edit Details (Events) - use 0 - as it is not used on the TL.

If you sort the Project Media by name - you should see the sublcip next to the video (unless you changed that name)

Udi

Could it be possible for the event to be on the timeline but so short that it doesn't appear to be visible (e.g. due to trimming the clip to be near zero length)? If so, then you should be able to locate it via the following method:

-right-click on the item in the project pane & click on 'select timeline events.'
-change focus to the timeline (e.g. by pressing alt-0).
press tab & shift tab to see if I could locate the event(s) that the mystery event is next to

- if that doesn't seem to work, could there be an event by itself on a track that looked empty?

Sorry if this possibility was already addressed. I don't have time to read the entire thread.

Edit Details - Events - is NOT showing this file. Way back up there I stated I couldn't see this in Edit Detail View.

There are no Subclips showing in the Media Pane. So if I had renamed it, there isn't a Subbie to substantiate that either.

Cheers

G

jerald, thanks for taking interest. I use Edward Troxel's Project Inspector, which finds itsy bitsy Event lengths on the T/L, and that didn't show anything either. It did show Event lengths of an acceptable length.

Cheers

G



re-edit for sense!!!

Hmm, Grazie, did the remove subclip (from the offending media file) not resolve the UseCount =1 issue?...

Fairly sure this is something to do with your problem there, can reproduce this here at will. But.. and its a big but... no crashing when i do so. That is suspicious.

Edit: Sorry, this is a long thread and i missed "There are no Subclips showing in the Media Pane"... so you dont have a subclip right?

Paul.

Paul, I have interrogated all the Views, and I can not see a Subclip. More to the point, when I go to delete the MOV file, I do NOT get any warning that it being used on the Timeline.

Cheers

G