Right, that would be a bet against unknown technical changes in an undefined future application. No supplier will be willing to guarantee that (and that is what you ask for), since he cannot know if and what development changes must be implemented. And at the end of the day people expect that for free too.

Beside technical reasons there may be economical reasons - typically bundled products are cheaper (= you pay less) then the standalone applications and bring less revenues to supplier, what may make that less attractive to third party suppliers. Only people with pure economic understanding may tend to ignore such a reallity.

So I think you will never ever find an EULA that will give you such a guarantee, even not for the more expensive standalone products. Or is there an example for a one-time payment businesse modell? I would be keen to see that.

The only point you can know as consumer is that the bundled products should work with the package as delivered. If they work also in future versions, you are a lucky man.

In respect of the Boris 3d Objects plugin, the product page says "included as part of this offer: Boris Continuum 3D Objects Unit (£239 / €299 value)" If it is a "£239 value", it must be the OFX v.10 version available direct from Boris which is advertised as also working with "VEGAS Pro 13-14" and a number of other hosts. If it is restricted solely to Vegas 15 then the "£239 value" is very misleading.

In respect of the Boris 3d Objects plugin...

If it is restricted solely to Vegas 15 then the "£239 value" is very misleading.

Agreed.

+1. Need to make this explicit, or some customers will end up very unhappy - as we have witnessed.

+1. Magix needs needs to be clear. If I decide to upgrade will go with the lowest version unless I have clarity on this issue.

typically bundled products are cheaper (= you pay less) 

Yes, whilst this is true, the reason for this is the solely the willingness of the Third Party supplier to quickly offload a multitude of licenses in a one-off transaction, obviously for a bulk price, similar to selling their product to a distributor which then will get their cut. This also gives the Third Party exposure to a wider market, and thus more potential future clients (for updates and other products). Don't forget, you can also get multi-desk licenses for VP, which also make the product cheaper. The argument of 'cheaper' shouldn't indicate restricted use such as purchasing a special, like VP14, at a fire sale (black friday) does not contain any restrictions compared to the full price version.

that would be a bet against unknown technical changes in an undefined future application. No supplier will be willing to guarantee that (and that is what you ask for),

I think it would be naive to expect any software version to work forever, and I don't do that. The OS can change and throw up hurdles or allow more efficient coding, the internal structure of a package can change (remember: name change from 'Sony' to 'Vegas' delivered a broken NewBlue Titler for the majority of it's life span), etc.

However, like my Office 2007 still runs fine on my laptop that originally came with my (then) Win7 machine,which now runs Win10, there is the legitimate expectation: "Why shouldn't it be working when I see it can be working..being the same version".

ProDAD has decided because of commercial greed to throw an artificial block in the road, and that's a business practice I find unethical. This is an attempt to double dip from clients to re-buy a license they already have for a specific version of a product.

If Magix knew that this was going to happen, and deliberately withheld that information, then, in my opinion, they are guilty of misconduct too. I just want to know if it's 'reasonably safe' to invest in bundleded products, or if this is becoming an auto-expiring annual third-party subscription junket

It are valid points to assume that bundled components are cheaper because of a bulk effect. But it can be also because of restrictions, and here the point is (also true) that some restrictions may be evident, and others not visible.

All together it boils down that there is nothing for free in this world. And people may life with the beliefe that this is not true, but unfortunately we learn that again and again.

So frankly spoken we do not know who has decided to limit Mercalli4 to VP14 (and they will not tell us). It was not communicated for sure what is more an ethical point, true, but there was also no legal obligation to tell you anything about the future, as long as a bundle works in the combination as it was sold.

I do not think that the world will change really since it is about monry. Only the seller can tell you something about possible restrictions in his prioduct (and it is up to you to ask). But this is a user forum, and none of the user nore the moderators can tell you that - since they simply do not know.

If your business workflow depends on the extra bundled plugins it surely makes sense to buy the full versions from the software maker? Or at least to update to them after you have proved their usefullness.

But this is a user forum, and none of the user nore the moderators can tell you that - since they simply do not know.

I would have thought Moderators would be somewhat affiliated with Vegascreativesoftware and can thus deliver some insights, as in a client-manufacturer feedback loop?

Anyway, if this can't be answered here I guess I can try to get a support ticket and try to find out from Vegas customer service desk directly.. tba

But this is a user forum, and none of the user nore the moderators can tell you that - since they simply do not know.

I would have thought Moderators would be somewhat affiliated with Vegascreativesoftware and can thus deliver some insights, as in a client-manufacturer feedback loop?

Anyway, if this can't be answered here I guess I can try to get a support ticket and try to find out from Vegas customer service desk directly.. tba

Maybe we as moderators have some more insights compared to other user in some limited points. But I can tell you for sure that moderators have no insights in the here discussed business decisions by Magix and/or a supplier like proDAD as discussed here.

So I agree with you that it may be a good idea to contact the customer service for the topics discussed here.

The people that made the software, added the bundles, Magix, surely have tested what EXACTLY works in the upgrade and what doesn't. How would you NOT test this before roll out? Surely, it was all tested and known.

Here's the official response from Magix Customer Service:

The plugins are only for the version with wich one you have purchased it. It can be possible that some plugins can use in a newer version. For example the pro DAD programs can't use in a newer version.

That pretty much confirms: Don't expect your bundled products to work with any future Version of Vegas.

On my part, this means the end of investing in Magix bundled software, as this is throwing money out the window.

Sorry Magix, you had your chance. I was going to support your ongoing product development. But This money is now going directly to the plugin manufacturer. In case of the recent VP15 'upgrade', I will refrain from purchasing VP15 entirely, and spend my money solely on a real full version of NewBlueTitler5, which will likely work in VP16, same time next year.

 

well, then stating on their page that it comes with boris continuum 3d unit worth €299 is simply not true.

i was thinking about upgrading, but now i'm completely put off by their dodgy practices... (advertising and pushing sales of vegas 14 after v15 was announced, the vague and untrue statements about 3rd party plugins... and by the way, got a new email with the SPECIAL upgrade offer... and the ending date is now changed from sept 11 to sept 18... )

... and by the way, got a new email with the SPECIAL upgrade offer... and the ending date is now changed from sept 11 to sept 18... )

You got 5 more days than me - the email I received said the special offer ends September 13th.

... and by the way, got a new email with the SPECIAL upgrade offer... and the ending date is now changed from sept 11 to sept 18... )

You got 5 more days than me - the email I received said the special offer ends September 13th.

expect to get another email on wednesday :)

@ AVSupport,

but if you stay with Vegas Pro 14, why should you invest in a full version of a plugin that continues to to work with your old Vegas Pro 14 license?

To see that emotional will take money for sure, because the standalone plugins are more expensive and you pay now twice.

And you still take the risk if a standalone plugin purchased today will work in the future with Vegas Pro 16/17/18 really - see the plural eyes plugin that is not working in VP15 even if it was purchased standalone. Even if it is true for many plugins purchased alone worked in the past in new Vegas versions (proDAD, BCC, Looks, Hitfilm...) you never can be sure about that. Nobody guarantees you anything for the future, that is the only point you know for sure.

Did anyone buy 'Mercalli Stabilizr V.4 for $99 when it was on sale, & is it confirmed that works with v15 vegas?

Isn't v4 of Mercalli stand alone?

but if you stay with Vegas Pro 14, why should you invest in a full version of a plugin that continues to to work with your old Vegas Pro 14 license?

@Wolfgang S., The NewBlue Tilter deal with VP14 was dodgy. What we got was a 2-versions-behind the actual current version 5. Didn't even see That One coming. No problem with making a 'special' restricted PRO (!) Express version, that doesn't do much, but this thing never really worked and was defacto unsupported until the very end of VP14 lifespan..I was expecting am upgrade to Titler5 'Express' but NO, Titler just has vanished, GONE in its entirety like everything else in the youbeaut packeage deal bargains...

Funny thing is, Titler 5 upgrade (from Newblue direct) works with 15. And 14. Perhaps even 16 when it comes out next year?? So does Version 4.0 of Mercalli Stabilizr, IF you had that one purchased 'standalone'. This version already exists. It is not the version, it's about the license. This seems to be all about corporate greed and licensing, and while I understand that everyone needs to make money, I understand that, but I don't like being taken hostage of, sorry. These restrictions are deliberate and not because of a major code rewrite. I was happy to pay some reasonable $$ for a Vegas update, but now, sorry, I'm reconsidering my options.

Did anyone buy 'Mercalli Stabilizr V.4 for $99 when it was on sale, & is it confirmed that works with v15 vegas?

There is a standalone plugin for Mercalli 4 on the proDAD Homepage. This plugin costs two times 149 Euro if you purchase it new.

https://www.prodad.com/Video-Stabilization-for-Professionals/Mercalli-V4-Plugins-for-Vegas-29796,l-us.html

BUT what you can try is following: if you have a serial from the bundled Mercalli4 plugin you can have a look if you can purchase the upgrade to Mercalli V4 SUITE Vegas 15 Pro. That inkludes the stabilizr for Vegas + cmosFIXR for Vegas + SAL Version, and costs 99$ now!

And the standalone purchased plugin works here with both Vegas Pro 14 and Vegas Pro 15 (but I have not clue if that works also with Vegas Pro 16 - and nobody will tell you).

Isn't v4 of Mercalli stand alone?

Yes and no. You have a plugin for Vegas and also a standalone app - at least in the Mercalli Suite.

but if you stay with Vegas Pro 14, why should you invest in a full version of a plugin that continues to to work with your old Vegas Pro 14 license?

@Wolfgang S., The NewBlue Tilter deal with VP14 was dodgy. What we got was a 2-versions-behind the actual current version 5. Didn't even see That One coming. No problem with making a 'special' restricted PRO (!) Express version, that doesn't do much, but this thing never really worked and was defacto unsupported until the very end of VP14 lifespan..I was expecting am upgrade to Titler5 'Express' but NO, Titler just has vanished, GONE in its entirety like everything else in the youbeaut packeage deal bargains...

Funny thing is, Titler 5 upgrade (from Newblue direct) works with 15. And 14. Perhaps even 16 when it comes out next year?? So does Version 4.0 of Mercalli Stabilizr, IF you had that one purchased 'standalone'. This version already exists. It is not the version, it's about the license. This seems to be all about corporate greed and licensing, and while I understand that everyone needs to make money, I understand that, but I don't like being taken hostage of, sorry. These restrictions are deliberate and not because of a major code rewrite. I was happy to pay some reasonable $$ for a Vegas update, but now, sorry, I'm reconsidering my options.

I see your point. I for my part was never a fan of the NewBlu titler and have installed it with the Suite Vegas Pro 14, and I remember that it did not work in the beginning really and then there were updates... so no fun at all, and I never used this titler. Maybe also because if I edit a projekt years later with a later Vegas Version, the plugins may be missing too - and the Project will not work.

And for Mercalli 4 and the plugin - as said, what I see here is the standalone Mercalli 4 Version works also in Vegas Pro 15. But if it will work in Vegas Pro 16? To my opinion nobody can confirm that today.

So maybe the assessment should be done with a different approach: will a software add enough value to my to spend the Money for it? That is true for Vegas but also each of the plugins. To my opinion Vegas Pro 15 is worthwile the mony (taking into account the new Features like quicksync, NVENC and ACES 1.0) and a lot of bug fixes and the ongoing development of Vegas Pro 15. But that is maybe not your point of view.