Proof that Vegas' AVCHD playback is broken.

Comments

Sebaz wrote on 6/7/2010, 11:46 AM
[I]I thought Vegas Pro was professional, so why should it have the capability to process an inferior consumer AVCHD product?[/I]

AVCHD has stopped being a consumer only format a while ago. Check the Panasonic AVCCAM professional line of products, which are AVCHD, at a higher bitrate than consumer AVCHD.

Sure, same here but at some point you've got to accept that you're kicking a dead horse and move on.

I would, if Vegas wasn't great in other areas. When it comes to working on the timeline, Vegas is easier for me than Premiere and FCP, not to mention that with FCP I'm slave to Apple machines, which I've been for a few years and I don't want to go that route again. I would try the new Premiere, but that would mean not only spending over a thousand bucks in the Production Suite, but also to spend at least around $300 in an Nvidia card. Besides, I don't want to support Adobe in their decision to get in bed with Nvidia and screw the millions that have very nice ATI based cards with enough power and RAM to use their mercury engine. The perfect AVCHD playback in Edius proves to me that there is no impediment for an NLE to use the GPU to accelerate playback, and there shouldn't be in Premiere CS5.

At the same time, I already paid for Vegas. Why shouldn't I expect it to work properly in one of the formats that it advertises?

If it's not happening every time that, odds are, it might not be vegas.

No, I'm sure that it is Vegas. It wouldn't be Vegas if it happened more randomly, but it happens only after moving in the timeline with JKL. Even if I move in the timeline just by clicking above the ruler at different points, it doesn't happen. After using JKL, it happens. When you click above the ruler, it doesn't happen anymore. That tells me that Vegas is getting choked up somehow and when you click above the ruler it flushes some buffer and starts over. Well, that's what should happen when you press L to play at normal speed.

With throughput's being more & more important it could very well be that for what you want you'll need to start looking in to having multiple drives, each with separate videos on them. Or maybe RAID stripping. I'm getting throughput just because you said it's not happening every time.

Throughput really doesn't have anything to do with this. With SATA 3.0 drives, especially this one being a WD Black Edition only for the footage, the bitrate of one AVCHD file and even several of them are far below the maximum transfer of the drive. The main problem with AVCHD is obviously decoding, but like I said, if your CPU can play three 1080i streams at a time at full fps, then it's fast enough and there should be no reason why Vegas can't play full fps consistently, under the same conditions. Of course things change when you start applying envelopes, filters and so on.

Still, I changed two of the files to another drive and it didn't make a difference.

My point here is that this is not a problem of how incredibly torturous it is for the computer to decode AVCHD. The CPU I had before was perfectly capable of decoding one stream of AVCHD without a problem until I started pressing JKL. My new CPU decodes three streams also perfectly well (maybe more, I haven't tried) but the problem is not how fast the CPU is. The problem seems to be with buffers. I tried changing a lot of buffer options in the internal prefs to see if it would make a difference, and it doesn't. Of course to perform these tests, I only used the default values.

And I don't know if it might be different in Vegas 32 bit, I might try it at some point, but Vegas 64 should have even less problems with buffers and bottlenecks when you have 16 GB of RAM and a 64 bit CPU.




LivingTheDream wrote on 6/7/2010, 12:30 PM
"You make a choice. Easy edit or cheap camera that records to AVC." - kkolbo

Yes, like this cheap camera:

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/micro-nxcamsite/

I mean, what were they thinking??
warriorking wrote on 6/7/2010, 1:36 PM
I just finished 2 seperate Children's Choir projects using 3 AVCHD camcorders, 2-Canon HG10's,1 Canon-HG21..All 3 brought into the timeline under multicam presets, Edited with flawless playback in the timeline in Vegas 9e 64bit with my i7Core setup..No drops that I can see.....
farss wrote on 6/7/2010, 3:09 PM
"The perfect AVCHD playback in Edius proves to me that there is no impediment for an NLE to use the GPU to accelerate playback, and there shouldn't be in Premiere CS5"

As others have pointed out Adobe's Mercury engine isn't everything. Even without it i.e. no GPU acceleration, CS5 is no slouch. You don't need nVidia hardware. I'd also point out that those here who are saying they're having less less issues than you are all running Intel CPUs.
I've had very problematic H.264 that Vegas could barely play and transcoding it was a waste of time as Vegas decoded it with major audio drift issues. Just for giggles I tried using PPro CS3 and playback was around the same fps but no audio drift issues at all.
Both Vegas and Ppro apparently, according to many here, use QT to decode H.264. How is it that the years old CS3 could decode it correctly through the same version of QT and Vegas 9.0d couldn't.
A few days after that little experiment V9.0e came out and the audio drift problem I had with these files was fixed, bravo. Only problem is V9.0e has managed to bring back a problem that got fixed two released ago with firewire preview. Not good, one step forward and two steps backwards.

As to your current problem. I don't know if it's supported under Win7 or not but if it is I'd suggest you try installing ASIO4ALL, that seems to have cured or improved a number of issues I've had with both Vegas and AE. I'd also suggest you try reducing your Preview RAM to 32MB or 0MB unless you need RAM Preview. Once you're finished with your RAM Preview switch it back to 0MB. PIA having to do this but it's kept my Vegas experience reasonably sane.

Bob.
Sebaz wrote on 6/7/2010, 3:33 PM
Bob, a h.264 file that played fine in CS3 probably was some strange h.264 that was encoded with a Quicktime wrapper from the beginning. CS3 did not play AVCHD directly, it needed a plugin. CS4 did, but with subsequent updates it got screwed up and it would play with hiccups. Using external preview is impossible with CS4, it dramatically reduces rate.

But neither Vegas nor PPro use Quicktime to read h.264. Unless, of course, it comes from some consumer camera or phone that records to Quicktime instead of normal AVCHD. It's very easy to tell this if you have Vegas and PPro in your system but never had Quicktime installed, you'll see that AVCHD plays in both.

I'd also suggest you try reducing your Preview RAM to 32MB or 0MB unless you need RAM Preview. Once you're finished with your RAM Preview switch it back to 0MB. PIA having to do this but it's kept my Vegas experience reasonably sane.

Reducing RAM preview works to a certain extent, but like I said, I did this test with RAM preview set to zero and other values, and it didn't change a thing.
farss wrote on 6/7/2010, 5:21 PM
"Unless, of course, it comes from some consumer camera or phone that records to Quicktime "

It did. That's why I said H.264 and not AVCHD and it was in a QT wrapper.

Bob.
kkolbo wrote on 6/8/2010, 5:35 AM
"You make a choice. Easy edit or cheap camera that records to AVC." - kkolbo

Yuppers, for the quality, that is a low priced camcorder. The feature set is very rich as is the image and audio quality for a camcorder in that price range.