Here's my view...

Pre-rendering overcomes the limitations of viewing heavily worked sections of your project on a external monitor which otherwise would show down the frame rate in order to display transations, etc.. in real time.

That's about all it is good for.

I never use it. No need. After you get comfortable with Vegas you know what it is capable of so even if the frame rate drops to half speed or so, you still get a good idea of how the final project will look.

In other words, there is no real reason to use it. To me, its just a crutch that slows your down.

On slower computers there are times where you want to see the clip and transitions at full speed but the CPU isn't fast enough to calculate everything in real time.

JBJones

I have found PRErendering (Print-To-Tape) to be one of the MAIN reasons that I like Vegas. As I progress through a project, I typically PRErender things overnight, when I go to teach class, at lunch, on breaks, on the phone. ANYtime that I am not actually editing, I use for prerendering. Those times would otherwise be lost to me. This way, my breaks, lunch, sleep, are productive. NO wasted time.

This accumulates LOTS of little 10 second segments (shown by a blue-greenish line above the top track) that are PRErendered. These run at full speed with ALL effects. No slowing down. Should I need to change something, then ONLY those sections are invalid as prerenders and the little blue-green bar goes away. That means that that section needs to be prerendered, again.

By the time I am finished with editing a project, the VAST majority of the whole is already prerendered.

In Vegas 3.0, there were two VERY different choices:

1) I could PTT. That is, when I finished editing the project I could finish the prerendering (PTT) and it would be output to tape rather quickly; or,
2) I could do a compete RENDER (from scratch) into one BIG, BIG file. The WHOLE project had to be Rendered AFTER editing stopped. This latter took me MANY hours, on one occasion up over 36 hours continuous rendering time. Wasted time. I couldn't really do anything but wait. Twiddle my thumbs and wait.

Think of it. What happens if after HOURS and HOURS of rendering a BIG, BIG file from scratch you found something you needed to change? Simple, throw away all those hours, make the diddly change and render again, for HOURS and HOURS. NEVER!

One of the problems in Vegas Video 3.0 was it was easy to lose prerendered segments without even realizing you had done so. A real PAIN!

However, in Vegas 4.0, there are a few differences:

1) The prerenders are a lot more "sticky." That is, they stick around longer and better. You are not so likely to lose them without cause.
2) Now, if you want to "RENDER from SCRATCH" and make one BIG, BIG file, rather than lots of little prerendered files, you can actually USE the prerendered files and Vegas will automatically and seamlessly ASSEMBLE the little ones into the big one. This can save MANY, MANY hours, assuming, of course, you PRErendered during your non-editing time.

Now, with Vegas 4.0, when I work, I still prerender as I go. NEVER waste a moment, even when sleeping. The difference is that whether I PRErender and finish, or Render and assemble to finish, it takes about the same time (a little longer for the big file, but HOURS and HOURS less than from scratch).

AND, if after I have made the BIG, BIG file, if I find I really must make a change, I DO NOT HAVE TO RENDER THE WHOLE THING AGAIN FROM SCRATCH. It usually just takes a few minutes to make the change and tell Vegas 4.0 to render, again. It then renders ONLY the changed part, assembles the prerenders into one BIG, BIG file, and I am finished! AGAIN, many HOURS and HOURS saved.

I wouldn't even CONSIDER doing a project without PRENDERING as I went. Wastes too much time at the end, wastes NONE while PRErendering in my sleep, at lunch, on the phone, on a break. It is time SAVED, rather then spent.

To PRE-render, you Print to Tape (PTT).
To RENDER from scratch (if you don't have any prerenders), or Render and assemble (Vegas 4) what is already prerendered, you just select Render.

VERY simple, and VERY nice to have the option.

Like I said, the PRErender ability is what I REALLY like about Vegas. It is almost a certainty that I would never have bought it if Print To Tape had not been available. The Render and Assemble is just the icing on the cake.

Now, I NEVER sit and twiddle my thumbs. The whole project is DONE when the editing is done for all practical purposes. Lovely!

wcoxe1: I SEE you like to SPEAK in CAPS :) WELL: I never got out of the habit of creating BREAKS in a long project (even just a fade to black & back in again) so that I could DIVIDE up the physical file created by the project. THAT facilitates even MORE savings of time. e.g., if you have to change something in mid-project at a spot you hadn't PRErendered. (Whew--I'm tired from all this shouting.) HAVE A NICE DAY!

Duh... printing to tape isn't pre-rendering.

From what I read of the explanation in the Vegas 4.0 Help Files, Printing to Tape IS Prerendering. You don't actually HAVE to export to tape, that is obviously only ONE of its uses, and if you don't print (that is, you were on manual), you still have prerendered files. Either way you have prerendered files. They are quite handy.

Quoted from the Vegas 4.0 Help System:

"Printing Video to DV Tape from the Timeline Tools Menu

"From the Tools menu, choose Print Video to DV Tape to print your project to a DV device.

"In order to use this feature, you must first configure a DV output device on the Video Device tab of the Preferences dialog. Vegas will use this device to communicate with your DV recorder.

"Prerendered files can require significant drive space. On the Video tab of the Project Properties dialog, select a Prerendered files folder on an a/v-capable drive with ample free space: DV requires approximately 228 MB per minute."

Notice the immediately preceeding paragraph, first word. "Prerendered" is also in the next sentence. I am just going by SoFo's own definition.

You are possibly thinking of "Selective Prerender." That is a limited version of what I am doing, and, yes, I sometimes do that, too. However, Print To Tape is a more complete and all encompassing version.

Selective Prerender is something I sometimes use when I need to see a final version of a small piece (selected) of something RIGHT NOW, while editing. The overall prerender of PTT is something I do with I am not editing at all. Like at lunch, sleep, etc. I don't have to sit around and wait for that. And, in all likelyhood, I will have EVERYTHING prerendered (except for new changes) and have to spend less time "Selectively Prerendering," too.

Hello, Mr. Smith:

I don't shout on these forums. Sorry if you didn't realize that. I am a student of linguistics. I observe and use vocal inflection as a guide. This undoubtedly indicates that I talk funny, but hey, big deal. My problem.

But, as I stated, I don't shout. No point in it. Lost in the translation.

Print to tape is the process of exporting video to your DV device (analog-digital bridge or DV camera). Pre-rendering is when you select a portion of your edit and have Vegas render it. As long as you don't edit a pre-rendered section of video again, it doesn't need to be re-rendered (as long as the format stays the same).

In case I'm not clear in my explaination, let's say you have a 30 minute video on miniDV tape. You capture those 30 minutes with Vegas 4. this gives you about a 6.5GB AVI file on your hard drive. You begin to edit this file, chopping it up, adding transistions, etc. Some areas of your edit are very complex, and the preview doesn't look good--it is choppy. To improve the quality of that section you can pre-render a section of your "movie". Now that piece looks great...full quality. Once your move is finished, you need to do something with it. Some will want an MPEG2 file, others will want WMV, others will want to archive to miniDV tape. To archive to miniDV tape, you use the Print to Tape tool. The video will need to be rendered before it can be saved to miniDV tape, so Vegas starts chugging along. Then it gets the the area that was prerendered and it should fly through that area because it makes use of the prerender you did earlier. Once the render is complete, it begins to print-to-tape.

I'm pretty sure I didn't mess this up.

EDIT: For those who save as MPEG2, all areas, included pre-rendered, will need to be re-rendered because the format has changed.

Craig

Hey - now that post was exciting to read - thank you for your PRErendering energy when others seem to have written it off.
However, I do only have VV3 and in my version the prerendering is not used in the render for the finished product - right? (Time to bite the bullet and upgrade? - or wait for V+DVD???)

I have an additional question for wcoxe1 (the one who YELLS A LOT);)
When you prerender using Print To Tape and get the green/blue bar over your rendered portions, where are those files saved on your hard disk? Are they in 10 second increments? Why isn't it printed to tape if that is the setting you selected?
If you select (for example) a 3 minute section of your edited movie to prerender while you sleep, is it saving 10-second increment avi prerendered files somewhere on your hard disk? Or is it saving the whole prerendered 3 minute segment somewhere.

I like your ideas (if I had VV4)

I also VERY MUCH like the idea of breaking the longer video up into individually rendered shorter segments (individual scenes of the movie) and seperating them with a fade to black or some similar transition. This I CAN do with VV3 - right???
So once I have my individually renderd edited "scenes", is it best to manually Print them To Tape one at a time and 'stitch' them all together, or line them all up on the timeline and render the whole mass (this seems like it would take a VERY long time even with rendered scenes, but MUCH shorter than if I rendered the whole mass with a bunch of edits and transitions and memory intensive calculations)

I guess you are right, Billyboy.... BUT, I do like to preview my final work since I do a lot of mixing of stills and DV. I just like to see the "smooth" result before printing. Plus, once you pre-render, printing to tape is a snap.

TomG

Just call me "Ole Yeller." See my comments between your lines, quoted below:

YOU: When you prerender using Print To Tape and get the green/blue bar over your rendered portions, where are those files saved on your hard disk?

Ole Yeller: Go to FILE / PROPERTIES / VIDEO. About 2/3s of the way down there is a place to aim you "Prerendered Files."

YOU: Are they in 10 second increments? Why isn't it printed to tape if that is the setting you selected?

Ole Yeller: You CAN let it print to tape. If you have your camcorder on, ready, and recognized by Vegas, AND it is one that allows Vegas to control it, it WILL print to tape.

However, if you don't have one attached, or it is turned off, the Print To Tape menus give you the option of using Manual. When finished prerendering everything, just cancel and save the project (By all means, SAVE it). All those beautiful little blue-green bars will hang around until you change part of a related clip.

YOU: If you select (for example) a 3 minute section of your edited movie to prerender while you sleep, is it saving 10-second increment avi prerendered files somewhere on your hard disk? Or is it saving the whole prerendered 3 minute segment somewhere.

Ole Yeller: I don't select what to prerender using PTT. I do ALL of it. (I make sure that the check box is UNCHECKed for that option.) That is the beauty of it. What you are describing is "Selective Prerender," which is a good thing, but not what I am so glad to have. I use it, also, but WHILE I am working. Not in my sleep. That is for PTT.

Yes, ANY method of prerendering IS saving LOTS of little 10 second parts of your project in lots of little files when you do the PTT or selectively prerender. It saves them to the default, which I don't remember where that is, or to where you tell it to save them when you change that setting. I have a folder called, "Vegas Prerenders." Inside that, I have folders with individual project names. I aim each project to its own, private, prerender folder.

If you do a selective prerender, they go the same place your PTT prerenders go. Either the default set by SoFo, or the folder you assign.

Does that help? Man, I'm going to bed. I'm all yelled out. Night!

CraigF & Arbutis24: Print to tape [from the timeline] is one method (of two . . . the other is to print to tape from the vidcap module . . . same section of Vegas you use to capture dv footage) of sending your project to DV tape. The vidcap method is not available until you have fully rendered your project. PTT from the timeline allows you to print in one step as Vegas renders ("pre-renders") the project, then prints to tape (sort of a two-step batch process).

In either case, you have the option to enable/disable DV device control (Vegas can start/stop your destination DVCam when enabled/won't cause any dvcam reaction when disabled). If you disable DV device control, then, Vegas simply renders ("prerenders") your project.

I haven't had an oppotunity to verify this in my copy of V4, but, from what I read (here and in the manual), if I prerender using PTT from the timeline (whether I choose to actually print to tape or not), subsequent printing of the project will not require further rendering as long as I haven't altered any areas of the project. If I have altered areas of the project, only those areas will need to be rerendered.

I also understand that V4 will take advantage of selectively prerendered areas of the project during the final print to tape stage so that none of your prerenders are discarded. This saves you time necessary in previous versions where you had to re-render most prerendered files before your final PTT.

Remarks by wcoxe1 make sense to me (caps or no).

Enable/disable device control is useful in two ways. 1)If your dvcam and Vegas are not getting along fabulously in the enabled mode, you can always disable device control and start/stop your cam manually to print the project.

The other use of this feature that I find truly valuable is that it allows me to pass long projects through my dvcam to my VHS machine so that I get good, seamless VHS prints of long projects (my dvcam's maximum tape length is 1-hour or 1/5 hrs max, depending on the cassette I use). I simply hook up my SVHS cables/audio cables between my dvcam and SVHS machine, set Vegas to print with device control disabled, I never start the dvcam, and the signal flows through to my SVHS recorder.

It never dawned on me to use PTT from the timeline to pre-render a project for that purpose only, but, for sure, if you used PTTFTL with device control disabled, you would most certainly be prerendering your project.

It's probably simpler to simply select the entire project (by highlighting so that the bluish haze surrounds everything you want to be included in the prerender) and using selective prerender. I believe the end result will be the same (with respect to the prerendered files) no matter which method you use.

The prerendered files are sent for storage to whatever disc storage device you set under preferences for that purpose. If you don't make a selection, V4 chooses for you (I'm not at my V4 computer, so I can't call out that default choice for you here).

Sorry for the long post, but it was starting to appear to me as though the thread was getting derailed over semantics. Prerendering (whether selective or from the timeline) is prerendering, and as pointed out in previous threads, results in scads of smaller files stored on the hard drive. Rendering results in one file per rendering session.

I haven't checked, but guess that both processes require similar amounts of storage space on the disk. Of course, if you render to one file, you can always navigate to that file, righ-click on it, and play the entire project on your computer using any capable application or transfer the file to other locations as suits your needs.

Well, then, that's all I have to add at the moment.

Hope this post helps someone, and I welcome any clarifications anyone else cares to add.

I never expected this thread to be so interesting when I first opened it.

Caruso

Again, due to the fact that I have VV3 and not VV4 - could someone shed some light on how they render segments of a large movie individually and then put the puzzle back together when they are ready for the final cut?

Here is how I do things in Vegas 3 or 4. We do a lot of weddings which fall into 4 basic pieces. Pre-ceremony, Ceremony, Between ceremony & reception, and Reception.

To edit the wedding, I will create a total of FIVE projects.
Project 1: Anywhere from 1 to 5 minutes long will be a music montage introduction. Render this to a separate AVI (not a pre-render, a RENDER AS)

Project 2: Anywhere from 15 minutes to over an hour will be a full mix of the ceremony mixing 2 or 3 cameras and multiple audio sources. When mixing is complete, do a full Render As to a separate AVI.

Project 3: Anywhere from 1 to 5 minutes to transition from the ceremony to the reception. Once again, render as to a separate avi.

Project 4: (you get the point) - mixing multiple cams for the reception and rendering to a separate avi.

Project 5: Add projects 1, 2, 3, and 4 to the timeline and transition between the segments appropriately. Do the Print To Tape from here (or any additional encoding such as MPEG2 for a DVD).

This procedure should work for ANY video. Your movie will be broken up into scenes. Get the scene the way you want it and render it to a "completed" scene.

In my view there is little if anything to be gained in prerendering. It does NOT save time to preerender. A video takes X minutes to render if you do it in stages or once the project is finished as the last step. Since rendering is or should be the LAST step, once I'm that far I DONE with the project and frankly don't care if it takes an hour or a week to render because by that time its on another machine and I'm doing something else.

If you get in the habit of prerendering nearly every scene to 'see how it looks' in real time, what you're really saying is you don't trust your own judgement. Even at reduced frame rates if you have a fairly recent box the frame rate should not drop so low that you can't tell what's happening. Then of course you can drop the preview qualiity lower than good, and if you got it higher than that, you're just kidding yourself.

Of course each to their own preferring method, which is a nice thing about Vegas, most things can be done several ways.

It is nice that there are many different ways to do things. I agree.

The only thing really valuable about the PTT method to me is that it takes NO time to do it during the days I am editing. It is being done while I am doing something else. Then, when I am finished editing, rendering (prerendering) is about 99% finished. I am only a few minutes away from printing my final project to tape.

If I had NOT prerendered I would have spent the exactly same time editing, but then when I finished editing , I would be many HOURS away from printing to tape (36 hours, in one case). Not minutes. That is the only time saved. It is not that I go to prerender everytime I want to see something. I hardly ever do that. In fact, almost never. I agree, wholeheartedly, that the ordinary preview screen is just fine for everything.

Any editing project has gaps in it. Lunch, sleep, etc. I just fill my gaps with useful computer work that doesn't require my attention, so that I don't have to sit without a computer while it is rendering from scratch at the end. I don't have two machines. I don't normally have hours and hours that I can sit and wait for a computer to render from scratch. Prerendering is just that: PRE, and I don't have to wait for it. Nice.

For instance. All week I have been editing. During breaks, lunch, nights, I have prerendered using PTT. This has added a total of maybe 10 minutes to my weeklong workload because I had to make it start the PTT process.

In a few minutes, I shall do a final PTT, this time with the camcorder attached and ready to print. I expect about 15 minutes will be used to finish rendering my latest change, then one hour to print, and the project is DONE!

If I had not done my rigamarole with PTT, I would be in the same place with editing, but I would now have to render from scratch. The project is a complex, VERY heavily edited project, with LOTS of corrections for poor lighting, etc. I fully expect that if I started scratch rendering right now that the scratch render would not be finished until sometime after noon tomorrow, at the earliest. I won't be back until Monday.

Finished Tape in about an hour, or finished tape tomorrow (Monday?) Seems like it saves time to me. I'll mail the project in about two hours. It should be in California on Monday, about the time I get back to work.