Putting on that "final shine"

goodtimej wrote on 8/6/2007, 9:40 PM
I am just about to complete editing a short film I have been working on for a while and would like to put a final sheen on it. With all my best intentions and efforts, the colors still came out more dingy that I would have liked them to. I would like to know what I can do on the output effects buss in order to just zing it up a bit.
I hear tell of an s-curve or something like that? I searched it and really don't think I found what I was looking for. Can someone here point me in the right direction or help me out with some presets?

Thanks a lot.

Comments

farss wrote on 8/6/2007, 9:50 PM
Perhaps if you could post a frame or two as a reference?
Grazie wrote on 8/6/2007, 10:11 PM
Ah man! You are in the place where all of us get to - at some time or another. And I mean ALL of us!! Welcome aboard, you are in for a revelation, and a ride of your life - be ready to be amazed.

THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE!

Bob is just so correct in wanting you to supply a "snippet". To do this stuff, here, by a text discussion is, IMO not a little frustrating. I am MORE than happy to have a go at a "still" from you, set up my own colour grading and have you see what I did to DO an "S" curve to see what you think. There will be others more than willing to assist too. I am sure you get a lot of support - we are a TEAM!

For me, the work Glenn Chan has been my saviour when it came to "S" curve grading/correction - he is a marvel.

So, email me!! - You MAY not like what I come up with, but you WILL see my attempts with the "S" curve.

Grazie
farss wrote on 8/6/2007, 10:56 PM
Just one small thought. Some time ago a very kind fellow Vegas user set up this site for exactly this purpose. I kinda feel it would be nice if we all made more use of it.

Bob.
goodtimej wrote on 8/6/2007, 10:57 PM
OK, well, I'll post a couple of my real problem shots and see what you come up with. Thanks again for the quick gracious help.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i17/goodtimej/hunny.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i17/goodtimej/crackerAttackers.jpg
farss wrote on 8/6/2007, 11:47 PM
Curves. Classic "S" but push it until things look too bad to live with.
Median or Mike Crash's Dynamic Noise Reduction.
Maybe a little Unsharpen Mask.

CrackerAttackers is underexposed and has a fair amount of noise.
I think you just needed more light for the camera to work with.

Of course I don't know what 'look' you're after so my comments could be way off the mark.

Bob.
Grazie wrote on 8/7/2007, 12:26 AM
I'm on the case.

Email me goodtimej and I'll send you the veg!! My email is in my "Profile".

Grazie
Grazie wrote on 8/7/2007, 1:01 AM
Ready!

I've got 7 examples on 7 tracks.

Each has its OWN look. I have NOT smoothed anything.

All have been graded, "improved" using V7e straight out to a high spec JVC monitor set for PAL. In one of the examples I used the downloadable FREE "Auto Levels" using the "Full Colour Correction with film levels".

I think you have some very fine "footage" that TOTALLY lends itself to colour grading. Well shot and framed. All the digital info is there to make what I've done a pleasure! Loved it!

Anyways ready and waiting for you . . .

Regards,

Grazie
Serena wrote on 8/7/2007, 1:01 AM
"levels" makes the big difference. Those images have a very limited dynamic range and adjusting both the black and white levels is the first thing to do. That might be quite enough.
farss wrote on 8/7/2007, 2:41 AM
Grazie got called away, so on his behalf I've posted his Veg here:

http://www.madison.thewikies.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=39

Bob.
Grazie wrote on 8/7/2007, 2:53 AM
Thanks Bob!!!

Came back - panic over!!

Hope youse like it.

No smoothing - rough n ready though.

. . thanks again Bob.

Grazie



Jessariah67 wrote on 8/7/2007, 4:56 AM
Here's what I would do to it:

www.harkproductions.com/Correct.veg
goodtimej wrote on 8/7/2007, 8:25 AM
Thank you so very much. Just woke up to 11 posts! I don't know what I would do without this forum really. I'll check this out right now.
goodtimej wrote on 8/7/2007, 9:08 AM
I think I need a preview monitor pretty badly. It may just be time to step up. I looked at all the examples from both and they just looked kinda washed out or overexposed on my monitor. I have the 30" Dell model. I've always heard not to do levels and such on computer monitors, but didn't put too much stock into it.

Ah well.

How bout this, any good recommendations for a reasonable preview monitor?
goodtimej wrote on 8/7/2007, 9:09 AM
Oh, one more thing, Grazie. When I open your file, Vegas tells me that I don't have a certain plug-in installed. What might this be?
I'm Vegas 7e
Grazie wrote on 8/7/2007, 9:51 AM
Sorry! I've been away all day . .

As I said these have been adjusted using a CRT monitor.

You need the AUTO LEVELS download. Mike Crash has it on his amazing website:

http://www.mikecrash.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=6Here you go![/link]

Grazie





Grazie wrote on 8/7/2007, 10:11 AM
looked at all the examples from both and they just looked kinda washed out or overexposed on my monitor.

Well, if you think both of ours look washed out then maybe it is the calibration of your Dell? I've just checked the colour on my Samsung 172 and compared to my JVC, looks kinda neat too. Not washed out, lots of detail. I even tried quickly altering StudioRGB to ComputerRGB AND the opposite CompRGB to StudRGB from an undoctored "hunny.jpg" and StudRGB to CompRBG has the best rendition. This means for me that my LCD Samsung monitor is up to scratch too.

So, what can I say?

Grazie

goodtimej wrote on 8/7/2007, 10:22 AM
Yeah, that is what I was saying, I am sure my monitor is out of calibration. Can you point me towards a tutorial for doing such?

Thanks again for all your help.
GlennChan wrote on 8/7/2007, 10:46 AM
By default the video preview (the normal one, not the external monitor / secondary windows display) will show a flat and wrong-looking image. (Assuming you are working with DV/HDV video footage and default Vegas codecs.)

What's happening is that many video formats have headroom and footroom for illegal / out-of-range values just in case. Vegas shows you (almost) all of these extra values. IMO it's not a very intuitive design, but that's what it does. Basically what you see is not what you're going to get.

To see what you're going to get:
A- For video work, use an external monitor to preview. You can output the signal to a DV camera to a monitor... this is the most common route.
B- If your target medium is a computer monitor, then apply a studio RGB to computer RGB conversion. Method A is to stick the Color Corrector on the video preview level with the studio RGB to computer RGB preset.
C- Method B is to use a "windows secondary display" as the preview monitor... it's in the preferences somewhere. Check use color management, and check studio RGB.
GlennChan wrote on 8/7/2007, 10:51 AM
Grazie, thanks for the kind words.

For info on the color curves he is talking about, get them here:
http://glennchan.info/Proofs/forums/sony%20back/curves-and-secondary-presets2.veg

Manually type in a name for the FX and save them as presets.

An excerpt from the VASST title on color correction has some information on general idea behind the s-curve color curve and using the secondary CC to add saturation back into the highlights:
http://vasst.com/product.aspx?id=2212ad20-81a5-4415-a37a-fa0c83fa1dcd
(download the movie from the excerpt link; the .veg linked above may not be an exact match to what's in the video)
Grazie wrote on 8/7/2007, 10:52 AM
No, I don't know of one.

Can you output to a a fairly good TV? You will need a DV>AV convertor. Your camera may be able to do this? Once you have your TV setup try re-calibrating back to get your monitor to look like the TV? I don;t know if this "advise" will pass muster with our RGB Gods hereabouts, but it is the ONLY thing I can think of that will get you at least on track with something that your Dell might mimic? Do you think you have TURNED up the brightness on your DELL to compensate for your "dingy" footage - did you do this prior to using any colour grading?

You have too many variables for me to take on board.

Grazie
Grazie wrote on 8/7/2007, 10:54 AM
Hi Glenn! I only speak as I find - Matey!!

But how does our poor Lamb here calibrate his LCD?

Grazie

Grazie wrote on 8/7/2007, 10:56 AM
OOps and DOUBLE oops!

We crossed the streams!!
farss wrote on 8/7/2007, 1:57 PM
Calibrating the monitor is one thing, calibrating the viewing environment and the viewer is another matter. CRTs are generally brighter than LCDs so in the same room how we perceive the image on an LCD will be quite different to how we perceive it on a LCD.
In this case I suspect Goodtimej is making a relative evaluation. Compared to his other footage the problems shots look washed out to him and that's a pretty good way to evaluate them as that's how his audience will also judge them, when they're intercut. The viewer will 'calibrate' their perception based on the best looking / brightest parts of his movie.
Bob.
goodtimej wrote on 8/7/2007, 6:20 PM
I went and got Mike Crash's auto levels plug in and have done some fiddling with it. It seems very cool.
Can someone take a second to explain it to me, though? The terminology in the included .txt file threw me off and I'd like to have a deeper understanding. I know that's a kinda vague question, sorry and thanks at the same time.