Questions About Color Space

jbar wrote on 10/20/2003, 8:25 AM

I am using VV 4.0d with Sony TRV-240 NTSC (Digital8).

Videos I capture look great on the camcorder or TV, but during capture, or when playing the avi file through players such as Windows Media Player, the video is extremely dark. VV seems to look fine while editing. My ultimate goal right now is to create a .wmv file that doesn't have that really dark look.

1. I'm assuming that the reason my DV files look great on TV but not on the computer is because of the different color spaces used (YUV v. RGB) ??

2. I'm assuming that VV looks good because VV is using RGB for preview ??

3. How can I render to .wmv and get a decent looking file (since the intention is to play the .wmv file on a computer) ?? Which filter...settings ??

Note that I can adjust the WMP controls to get a half-way decent looking video, however I don't want viewers of my video to have to do that.

Please let me know if I excluded some useful information that would help.

-Jeff

Comments

BillyBoy wrote on 10/20/2003, 8:31 AM

This is one time you DON'T want to use an external monitor if your video is going to be played off a computer. Instead undock the preview window and let it float over the track area if desired so you can get a bigger preview. Adjust levels/gain on the color corrector filters for desired brightness levels. All the info on my tutorials still apply, just don't view on an external monitor for adjustment purposes if your final output is your computer.

farss wrote on 10/20/2003, 8:53 AM

What BB has to say is 100% right but I don't think it addresses your situation.
I'm assuming you are previewing on your PCs monitor and you've made no adjustments to your video. You say it looks fine when you play the tape back onto the TV directly an dit looks fine in the preview window on the PC.

So I suspect a few possibiities:.
a) WMP uses somewhat different gamma which can make the video look darker or

b) the issue maybe subjective. Assuming you've rendered the WMV for a small window size then from the little I know in this area a small area at the same actual brightness appear darker than a larger one.

c) the WMV encoding does alter the color space resulting in some crushing of the blacks making the video look darker.

d) Your WM Player has the brightness turned down to start with.

I'd say most of the videos I've watched through WMP do look rather darker than usual but this could be due to b,c or d.

I'd suggest you try winding up the brightness in VV prior to rendering and see how the video then looks. I'd try it on a number of PCs just in case and try to get a happy balance. Just like everyone tends to have their TVs adjusted all over the place PC monitors are not adjusted any better.

jbar wrote on 10/20/2003, 2:27 PM

Thanks to BillyBoy and farss for responding.

Thanks also to BillyBoy for all the great information and tutorials.

I was looking at your tutorials the other day and the color corrector filter can definitely help, but the VV preview is useless since it looks great already. What I want is a "make my video look like this" button ;)

As I start applying color changes, the VV preview starts looking washed out and too light. Then I render and view in WMP, and it may or might not look good...it's trial and error.

Note that my original avi (DV) file looks like too dark in WMP also.

I had (months ago) played with AVISynth and used a filter like Levels(0,1.3,255,0,255) which produced a much better looking avi file. I was hoping that VV had something built in to provide a similar result. I'm guessing I could work out the numbers with the Color Corrector, but the preview would look like crap.

It seems that the preview window would have the option to view for TV or computer.

-Jeff

jbar wrote on 10/20/2003, 2:50 PM

Oops..guess when I reinstalled a while back I forgot to recalibrate one of my monitors.

I think the video on the computer is still darker than on TV, but it's defintely viewable now. I can proceed to BillyBoy's tutorials now :)

Thanks for the help.
-Jeff

Bill Ravens wrote on 10/20/2003, 2:58 PM

I'm really surprised at the lack of knowledge amongst video people re: monitor calibration. Many people beleive that adobe gamma or wziwyg software is sufficient to "tune" their monitor. Fact is, it isn't. The cheapest and simplest method I'm aware of is to buy or rent a $250 Eye One Display colorimeter. Problem with renting is that monitors change over time and need to be recal'ed. Surprisingly, adobe gamma generally produces a monitor that's significantly higher in brightness than it should be, resulting in a darker looking image after transfer to another monitor or Tv that's properly calibrated.