Quick Vegas Pro and Blu-Ray spec question

Hulk wrote on 9/14/2008, 7:57 PM
I don't have a Blu-Ray burner as yet but would like to start editing and storing my completed HD projects.

I am noticing that when you select one of these BD presets the System tab in the Render As dialog is "video elementary stream." That is without audio. If I select the mp4 audio/video stream will that still be playable on a BD?

I'd like to use that so that I can also easily play the edited files on my computer (and home theater) from the files.

Before starting to achive some projects I'd like to hear from someone that has actually been burning and playing BD's as to what actually works and what does not.

Thanks,

- Mark

Comments

blink3times wrote on 9/14/2008, 8:21 PM
Yes and no

When burning MP4 or avchd directly from within Vegas the audio is included.

Things get a little tricky however with burning blu ray mpeg2 files. The spec for Blu Ray is AC3 (dolby digital) and there are licensing issues with muxing mpeg files and AC3 if not aimed directly for disk.

For this reason mpeg2 files (m2t, mpg...etc) are exported without audio and a separate AC3 audio file is created. These are imported to DVDa where they are muxed and burned. What ever the case though, if the audio is not checked in the template then you will NOT get the audio. Some templates will allow the audio and some won't depending on what you're doing. For the most part though.... you can customize most of the templates.

I don't deal with avchd, mp4...etc anymore.... too much of a headache. Most of my exports are M2V (mpeg2)and a separate AC3 then imported and burned
PeterWright wrote on 9/14/2008, 9:27 PM
I'm in a similar situation to Hulk - don't currently need to make BluRays, but would like to be ready ....

Presently the picture seems confusing - there seems to be more than one way of rendering for BluRay? Why is this? What templates work for what end players?

Are all Blurays 1440 x 1080, rather than 1920?

Any clarification would be most appreciated.
blink3times wrote on 9/15/2008, 3:00 AM
"Are all Blurays 1440 x 1080, rather than 1920?"

You can do either one. Blu ray can be done a number of different ways. Standard audio though seems to be AC3.

There is also what is known as BDAV, and BDMV.
BDAV is a sort of down and dirty burn with no menus (kind of what you get when using the direct burn from Vegas). BDMV is the authored disk with menus and such.
PeterWright wrote on 9/15/2008, 3:19 AM
Thanks Blink - that's a start ... but in Vegas I see the following choices:

Under Sony AVC:
AVCHD 1440 x ...
AVCHD 1920 x ...
Blu ray 1440 ... 15 Mbps
Blu ray 1440 ... 8 Mbps
Blu ray 1920 ... 16 Mbps
Blu ray 1920 ... 10 Mbps

Under Main Concept MPEG2:
Blu ray 1440 ... 24p 25 Mbps
Blu ray 1440 ... 50i 25 Mbps
Blu ray 1440 ... 50i 8Mbps
Blu ray 1920 ... 24p 25 Mbps
Blu ray 1920 ... 50i 25 Mbps

- I have omitted the 60i, being in PAL land , but that still leaves eleven choices ...

Now, if all I wanted to do was make a Blu ray disc via DVDArchitect that will play in as many machines as possible, what information would guide my choice?

Thanks


JohnnyRoy wrote on 9/15/2008, 7:55 AM
> Now, if all I wanted to do was make a Blu ray disc via DVDArchitect that will play in as many machines as possible, what information would guide my choice?

Select any one you want. They are all Blu-ray compliant. It's not a matter of "compatibility". It's just a matter of quality. Since you can't create quality (you can only loose it) the simple rule of thumb is to render with the template that is closest in quality to your original footage.

For example: I have a Sony HVR-Z1U that shoots HDV which is MPEG-2 1440x1080-60i 25Mbps so I always select the "Main Concept MPEG2: Blu-ray 1440x1080-60i, 25 Mbps video stream". This keeps my video at the quality I shot it. If you had an AVCHD camera that only had a 15Mbps stream I would select one of those templates.

~jr
Hulk wrote on 9/15/2008, 8:51 AM
Thanks for the replies there is some good info here but I still have a few concrete questions I'm hoping can be answered.

1. If I select a Blu-Ray template and then under the "System" tab of the custom dialog box select "MP4 file format (.mp4)" and then on the "Audio" tab tick the box to include audio will the resulting video/audio *.mp4 file be Blu-Ray compatible?

2. I also notice on the "System" tab that there is an option for an MPEG-2 transport stream (.m2ts). If selected then you are also able to select and AC3 audio stream on the "Audio" tab. Would this file be Blu-Ray compatible? I assume it would since this is how BD's are packaged. The problem with this option is that with or without audio Vegas 8c will not seem to render to the *.m2ts format. Unless this is a problem specific to my setup.

Thanks again.

Mark
blink3times wrote on 9/15/2008, 10:33 AM
You need to be careful with the mpg4... not all playback machines are equal and you need to research what will play mp4.

Vegs does not render m2ts because it doesn't have to. Render a mpeg2 file (as you like it) in the form of a M2V then render out a separate AC3 audio file. These will import separately into DVDa to do your disk.

If you really need a M2TS then you can download TSmuxer (free) and it will mux your M2V and AC3 and output a M2TS. To be honest, this is what I do.... then I am free to import this to any BD burner program I wish.
Jeff9329 wrote on 9/15/2008, 1:24 PM
Hulk:

Your answer will depend on what authoring software you are going to use.

Also, do you have a Blu-Ray player?

If so, you should start burning AVCHD files for BD5 and BD9 disc destinations until the Blu-Ray media comes down a little more. Unfortunately, DVDA dosen't support this.
PeterWright wrote on 9/15/2008, 5:33 PM
Thanks Johnny - that's the clearest thing I've read on the subject!

I'm tempted to get a BR burner and start making BR versions, even though clients only want DVD so far .....
Hulk wrote on 9/15/2008, 9:25 PM
Jeff9329,

Yes I do have a Blu-Ray player. I have a HTPC on my big screen. It has the LG combo drive in it and I regulary play BD's and HD-DVD's. Well not so many HD-DVD's lately.

Good idea about burning to DVD-Rs for now. I think Corel has an application that does that.

- Mark
ScorpioProd wrote on 9/16/2008, 2:55 AM
So wait, are you guys saying that DVD Architect 5 can't burn Blu-ray compatible to a DVD-R???

I was kinda sure they said at NAB that it would be able to do that...
blink3times wrote on 9/16/2008, 3:51 AM
You're SUPPOSED to be able to burn a BDAV on dvd5/9, even a BDMV with menus. I will say however that I have not had any luck in successfully doing it in DVDa. My PS3 always sees them as 'data' disks'

I CAN however create a REAL Blu Ray disk in dvda. I do prefer to use another application though.... dvda has a few restrictions that I don't like.

What dvda does not support is the making of avchd disks since these can be done from within Vegas itself.
jonask wrote on 9/17/2008, 1:19 PM
For some reason, the PS3 does not support BDMV (and BDAV?) on dvd5/9. It only supports AVCHD. (A really strange policy.)

I believe that DVDA can make BDMV on dvd5/9.

blink3times wrote on 9/17/2008, 2:19 PM
"For some reason, the PS3 does not support BDMV (and BDAV?) on dvd5/9. It only supports AVCHD. (A really strange policy.)"

Yes it can.... or at least mine does. It just doesn't work with Vegas. I use another program and it works fine.

Added: I should clarify..... BDAV mpeg2 not BDMV
jonask wrote on 9/17/2008, 2:51 PM
I checked the manuals of Vegas Pro 8 and DVD Architect Pro 5. They both support Blu-ray contents using the BDMV format on DVD media (and Blu-ray media). Neither of them seems to use the BDAV format.

And since PS3 currently doesn't support BDMV format on DVD media, Blu-ray content on DVD media produced by Vegas or DVDA doesn't work on PS3. Personally, I think this is a stupid limitation of the PS3.
blink3times wrote on 9/17/2008, 2:58 PM
The PS3 DOES playback BDMV and BDAV on dvd. It just won't do it with mpeg2..... only avchd. It was built that way on purpose. It adds a bit more security against copyright infringements. The various players on the market are even more restrictive.

You can however TRICK the ps3 into playing BDAV (mpeg2)