Comments

david-ruby wrote on 4/12/2012, 10:22 AM
Thanx Byron. I actually have a raid setup on one machine and a single drive on the other for editing. I see no difference between them as far as editing. I thought this was a bit strange. Only diff is one machine has a ge force 560t. hmmm.
Laurence wrote on 4/12/2012, 10:36 AM
I'm having no issues whatsoever just using USB3 drives.

It really depends upon the demands of your video codec and how many tracks you have. If you edit native DSLR footage, you don't need a super amount of disc throughput. Just CPU power to decompress it. If you are using an intermediate like Cineform, you need a bit more throughput, but even a USB2 drive will handle two streams. The only time you need RAID is if you are working with uncompressed video.
david-ruby wrote on 4/12/2012, 3:13 PM
I take this back. I do see a difference between machines after further workings. The nvidia 560t machine with one single sata seems to handle straight dslr footage much better than our machine with a radeon hd 4800 non gpu vid card and raid drives. Both machines identical as far as guts. Dell with i7 2.67.
david-ruby wrote on 4/12/2012, 3:19 PM
Laurence. can you use a usb 3.0 drive on a computer that does not have a 3.0 usb plug? I see it says backward compatible with 2.0 but will you lose the speed I wonder?
Thanx
arenel wrote on 4/12/2012, 4:11 PM
Remember that with Raid 0 your failure rate increases by 100% and you likely will lose all your data unless you have a backup system.

Ralph

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John_Cline wrote on 4/12/2012, 5:10 PM
" I see it says backward compatible with 2.0 but will you lose the speed I wonder?"

Yes, the USB3.0 drive will operate at USB 2.0 speeds, the limitation is the speed of the USB interface. USB 2.0 has a maximum speed of 480 megabits/second, USB 3.0 is over 10 times faster at up to 5 gigabits/sec. The real-world USB 2.0 hard drive transfer rate is up to around 30 megabytes/second. The limitation is the USB 2.0 interface, not the hard drive. Using USB 3.0, the limitation is the speed of the hard drive itself. I regularly get 100 megabytes/second using USB 3.0 with conventional hard drives. USB 3.0 should be easily capable of around 400 megabytes/second.
TheRhino wrote on 4/12/2012, 5:13 PM
Others can bash RAID and say there is no benefit but they likely do not have a hardware RAID card or have some other bottleneck in their system...

In our main editing rig I use a 3Ware 9650SE hardware RAID card that has (4) 2TB drives operating in RAID0 and (8) 2TB drives operating in RAID10 for speed & redundancy. The source video is kept on the RAID0 because we keep a backup elsewhere. The final edited video & VEG files are saved to the RAID10. The 9650SE was chosen because it is very reliable even if it is not the fastest card available. Large files copy from one raid to the other at approx 400 Mbps.

In Vegas 10e my overclocked 980X with 24GB or RAM will operate at 100% during rendering. A two hour multi-cam HD project generally takes two hours to render. Clients often want more than one file type, so I often render (2-3) projects at once. If I try to do this from a single SATA drive it really bogs-down. Everything takes longer to render and I get the notorious render to black issue a lot more often since multiple versions of Vegas are asking a single hard drive for the same info....

All of my RAID drives are in (3) 5-across hot-swap trays that consume (9) 5.25" bays total. (12) HD slots hold the RAID drives and (3) function as external hot-swap bays. In (3) years I only had one incident where one of the RAID10 drives started sounding rather loud. I merely pulled it out & replaced it before I left for the night and the next day everything was working fine.

On the RAID0 I also keep a copy of all of my stock video and audio files. The search function is especially fast. For files I have never used before, Vegas builds the audio levels very, very fast compared to a single drive system.

If nothing else I like that I do not have to plug-in external USB 3.0 drives or eSATA drives or have to worry about bad connections or external power supplies.

Everything just works... well... except for V11...

Workstation C with $600 USD of upgrades in April, 2021
--$360 11700K @ 5.0ghz
--$200 ASRock W480 Creator (onboard 10G net, TB3, etc.)
Borrowed from my 9900K until prices drop:
--32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3200 ($100 on Black Friday...)
Reused from same Tower Case that housed the Xeon:
--Used VEGA 56 GPU ($200 on eBay before mining craze...)
--Noctua Cooler, 750W PSU, OS SSD, LSI RAID Controller, SATAs, etc.

Performs VERY close to my overclocked 9900K (below), but at stock settings with no tweaking...

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair H150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000 (added another 32GB later...)
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (AMD VCE) in 13s when clocked at 4.9 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV & VCE renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 32TB RAID0--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID card with backups elsewhere

10G Network using used $30 Mellanox2 Adapters & Qnap QSW-M408-2C 10G Switch
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS with (6) 14TB WD RED
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A & B are the 2 remaining 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

$999 Walmart Evoo 17 Laptop with I7-9750H 6-core CPU, RTX 2060, (2) M.2 bays & (1) SSD bay...

david-ruby wrote on 4/13/2012, 9:54 AM
I am using a pci-e silicon 3132-4port raid card which I will say made a huge difference when I was using hdv footage. But now since we are using dslr footage (mov) by nature it has been a bit different on performance. Rhino are you familiar with this low budge card? Thanx
David
TheRhino wrote on 4/13/2012, 1:31 PM
The Silicon Image 3132 chip is from the 2006 era and was a common means to add SATA ports to motherboards and PCIe cards before Intel started integrating RAID into the southbridge (ICH10R, etc.). Although it may allow you to configure a RAID during startup it is really a software-based solution like most motherboard chips. We actually had a set of 3132 PCIe cards from earlier systems and they were much slower in all regards compared to the onboard ICH10R southbridge.

Workstation C with $600 USD of upgrades in April, 2021
--$360 11700K @ 5.0ghz
--$200 ASRock W480 Creator (onboard 10G net, TB3, etc.)
Borrowed from my 9900K until prices drop:
--32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3200 ($100 on Black Friday...)
Reused from same Tower Case that housed the Xeon:
--Used VEGA 56 GPU ($200 on eBay before mining craze...)
--Noctua Cooler, 750W PSU, OS SSD, LSI RAID Controller, SATAs, etc.

Performs VERY close to my overclocked 9900K (below), but at stock settings with no tweaking...

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair H150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000 (added another 32GB later...)
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (AMD VCE) in 13s when clocked at 4.9 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV & VCE renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 32TB RAID0--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID card with backups elsewhere

10G Network using used $30 Mellanox2 Adapters & Qnap QSW-M408-2C 10G Switch
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS with (6) 14TB WD RED
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A & B are the 2 remaining 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

$999 Walmart Evoo 17 Laptop with I7-9750H 6-core CPU, RTX 2060, (2) M.2 bays & (1) SSD bay...

david-ruby wrote on 4/13/2012, 9:57 PM
Good to know. Thanx Rhino.
Steve Mann wrote on 4/17/2012, 7:29 AM
Unless you are working with uncompressed HD, RAID does not offer any performance advantage during editing and encoding. The bottleneck will be the CODEC and CPU capabilities. I have been using external SATA drives in a USB 2 docking station for years with no problems and I've edited projects with as many as 30-tracks.

Steve Mann