Thanks for the reply Gerald,
What I like about the specs on the Canon G20 is the dual SD card slots. Now, when you say nicer cams out there, I don't see any others with the dual SD card slots under $799

[I]What I like about the specs on the Canon G20 is the dual SD card slots.[/I]

Why?

If other cameras don't have dual card slots and this camera can also do auto switch from a full card A to card B, then I understand.

G

Yes the dual SD slots are an advantage, especially if you are capturing an unrepeatable event, 2 x 64 or 128GB cards in simultaneous record mode gives you instant backup.
I normally have other cams going though, so if one drops out its not the end of the world.

I more meant that from a quality point of view you could probably get 50P and 4K for about the same money second hand. Another side note, Ive used this cam in combination with other 50p cams, shoot 50i with a fast shutter speed, then dropped into a 50p comp. The software interpolates the rest of the fields and presto, you can get some slomo footage at a pinch. Not ideal, but in good light, good enough for B roll shots.

FWIW though, having a look on ebay to see what they are worth now, I see one locally here with a starting bid of $500.... if it goes cheap enough, may even grab another myself :)

I owned a HF G30 for about a year and I never used the relay or the simultaneous/backup recording feature. A 64GB card will give you 5hrs of recording and a 128GB twice as much. I can understand that some are paranoid and need the backup function for an important event but honestly, for my important events I use a better camera to begin with. The image quality just wasn't there. I was initially exited that the G30 would do 35MB @ 1080 59.94p but the sensor is just too small and has poor dynamic range. What bothered me the most aside from the lack of manual control buttons for iris, gain and shutter, there is no control over the build in variable ND filter. The moment the AX100 came out I switched and I am glad I did.
I do have good things to say about the G30 too. The fact that it had a full flash timecode menu for example, something I deeply miss on the AX100.
If you like the G20 and especially the dual slot, I suggest to get a G30 off eBay. It is has the higher bit rate recording which does make a difference.

Sony HDR-cx900..
Changed my life forever.
I'm now rocking 4x cx900's and 3x cx330's. I'm about to invest in a crane and jib for one of the cx900's.
If I added 4 or 6 (GoPros), my multicam shoots would take on a new level to say the least.
You should be able to get a hold of a CX900 on eBay in the $800.00 to $1300.00 range.. Look at the specs and make up your own mind.

Just out of curiosity - and not trying to be facetious

What is the attraction of these types camcorders these days over mirrorless or DSLR cameras? Ergonomics is obviously slightly better, but for image quality you can't really beat the cameras, can you? I mean, you have bigger sensors, perhaps MUCH bigger sensors with better dynamic range, often better codecs (not always), better color etc. You also get the advantage of changing optics to suit the situation whereas for a camcorder you are usually stuck with a single piece of glass. You can get proper Cine glass for these cameras, you can shoot with old (and fantastic) glass. Wherein lies the attraction of a camcorder?

If you go for the lower end, for example, the Panasonic GX85. Is there any camcorder in the price range that can touch it? The sensor is bigger, there is fantastic glass available, it can shoot 4K which, when scaled to 1080P blows just about any recorded 1080P footage out of the water. The Sony A7S, which you can also get used for a reasonable sum of money can literally see in the dark and can hold its own (not fully, but far more so than most camcorders) against professional stuff gear at ten times the price.

I used to shoot Canon a lot, but there is (almost) nothing Canon offers today in the sub $10K range that can match the better DSLRs and Mirrorless cameras out there. Just curious.

I own a a6300 with 3 different lenses, a AX100 and I usually rent bigger cameras for the more important jobs.

The a6300 is a very good mirrorless camera and combined with the 18-105 lens is great, yet I don't use it for video. It is very difficult to operate compared to even an AX100 and most important, no build in ND filters. Aside from all that, unless you shoot 4K in s-log or similar and bother to color grade the hell out of it in a 32bit project, the video image quality is NOT any better. I recently purchased the XLR-K2M kit for the AX100 and it will fit the a6300 too. But again, once mounted on the a6300 it becomes troublesome and difficult to hold.
Zoom range is another issue with any DSLR or mirrorless camera because it's rather limited unless you spent huge $$ on a glass. Lowlight ability is only marginal better on the a6300 when compared to the AX100 and in many reports, the a6300 has been put on almost the same level as the a7Sii.
However, I can see that if you work in a controlled environment and have plenty of time to setup a shoot and your shoot isn't longer then 10-15min at a time, yes a DSLR/Mirrorless camera could be the way to go especially with an external recorder.
I was deeply considering to only bring the a6300 on my next vacation, stills are just stunning with it but, after trying it out for video in the nearby park it became clear that this stile of camera isn't meant to go out and shoot what ever comes across your lens. I would have to constantly change lenses for further away shoots and again, no ND filters.
I recently finished a 3 day shoot of a figure skating competition, with 14hrs continuous shooting. There is no way you can do this with any DSLR stile camera on the budget we did it and produce a very good product, color graded 1080 60p for internet and DVD with all orders delivered on the last day, I only had to rework 7 seven orders which where the last few skaters and the rink had to be changed to hokey and my production site had to be torn down.
There are reasons why camcorder stile cameras exist and work so well for their indented purpose.

Thanks to everyone for the DETAILED replies...

OK, let me explain why I WAS interested in a cam with dual SD slots. Lots of my projects are right around an hour or so, and it was a pain switching tapes, with 2 SD cards, I wouldn't have to worry about switching in the middle of important scenes.
But, from what I have been reading, it seems like I can get a good bit on just one SD card...
That said, what is important to me is the keep price below $1000, and easy quick access to manual exposure button/knob. I use that a lot when filming High school musicals, (spot light on spotlight off/ low light)... 4K would be nice, but not extremely important to me now. Also what is important to me is that the files will work on Vegas pro 13's timeline...
Now looking at:
Panasonic HC-WXF991K
Panasonic HC-VX870K
Panasonic HC-X920
Sony FDRAX53/B

Thanks,
Ron

I would tend towards the Sony FDRAX53/B because if the XAVC codec which Vegas handles very well.
But, since 4K isn't on top of your list, I would rather spend a little bit more and go for a Sony HDR-CX900. Bigger sensor, bigger lens diameter, better manual controls and a bigger overall camera which is easier when recording hand held, small and light cameras can be very difficult to handle and keep stable.
Those go on eBay around a $1000.

I saw a nice youtube review on the Sony HDR-CX900. Looks like a NICE cam...

Yes it is.

@OldSmoke

>> I own a a6300 with 3 different lenses, a AX100 and I usually rent bigger cameras
>> for the more important jobs

Thanks for the enlightening answer. Perhaps I fail to see some of the ergonomic limitations of the camera vs camcorder situation since I have spent some time building a rig that works and over comes most the limitations.

Today I don't see my self shooting anything but 4K, so that is critical to me. Both to future proof but also due to the much better quality 1080P I can deliver from a 4K material than is possible with a 1080P source. I have never used the prosumer-style 4K camcorders, so I don't know what the quality is like, but my concern would be the increased pixel density and inevitable shrinkage of the photosites. Obviously that's also a problem on cameras like the A7RII, which still has excellent DR and noise levels. So, perhaps my skepticism is entirely unfounded :-)

@Terje

Perhaps I fail to see some of the ergonomic limitations of the camera vs camcorder situation since I have spent some time building a rig that works and over comes most the limitations.

I almost would have done the same with the a6300 but by the time I researched all the parts I would need to overcome the shortcomings, including recording time which would mean buying an external recorder, I ended up with an almost astronomical sum. Again, I can see where a DSLR camera will shine for example with a prime lens in a controlled shoot. As for 4K, I honestly would have expected more from the APS-C sensor vs. the 1" sensor of the AX100. I am now seriously looking at Sony's latest PXW-Z150 camera and may rent it for a weekend to test it out.

@ronkoms:
[I]"Lots of my projects are right around an hour or so, and it was a pain switching tapes, with 2 SD cards, I wouldn't have to worry about switching in the middle of important scenes." [/I]

If this is your motivation for dual card slots, it won't be an issue with most any memory card camera. The SD memory cards are not like 1-hour tapes -- they can hold multiple hours of video -- depending on the size.

For example, in this link for the Canon G20 you mentioned:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/909792-REG/Canon_8063b002_32GB_VIXIA_HF_G20.html

On the "Specs" tab and scroll down to "Recording". It gives recording times for the built-in 32GB of memory. At the max settings, you can get 2.9 hours of video in 32GB of memory. Put a 64GB SD card in, and you presumably can record close to 6 hours of video on that card. No need to swap memory cards, etc.

Disclaimer: I am not personally familiar with any of the cameras discussed here. I just wanted to point out that you may be unnecessarily limiting your search by focusing on the need for dual memory cards. Check the specs of each camera to get a feel for how much you can record on one card.

EDIT: Ooops! I see this point was already made by Oldsmoke above, and ronkoms saw this and understood. Sorry.

@OldSmoke
Today I don't see my self shooting anything but 4K, so that is critical to me. Both to future proof but also due to the much better quality 1080P I can deliver from a 4K material than is possible with a 1080P source.


I like the concept of shooting 4k, like stated above...
Terje and OldSmoke, What cams do you two own?

Ron

I own the FDR-AX100 and shot almost exclusively 4K with it aside from the sport events which are all 1080 60p. I have the a6300 too but decided not to use it for day to day video and just shoot stills with it. As mentioned earlier, it isn't that much better in terms of image quality but a lot more troublesome to shoot video with.

Are you increasing your budget? It's impossible to get a good 4K camera below $1000.

Maybe by a little. I'm really liking what I am seeing with the FDR-AX100. I was almost ready to buy the 53 model, but did like what they were saying about that motion stabilizer thing inside. They were saying NOT good when using tripod. Is it true the FDR-AX100 does not have that? Maybe called Optical Image Stabilization. It like floats inside.
Important to me, is a nice - easy-to-get-to dial, for exposure, does AX100 have that?

The AX100 has a dial that can be set for exposure. It also has dedicated buttons for Iris, gain & Shutter as well as build in ND filters. And yes, it has Optical SteadyShot Image Stabilization but when set to Active, which is the higher setting, it can be tricky while slow panning on a tripod as it will try and keep the image stable at the beginning, set it to Standard and you are fine.
My only issue is that it doesn't have a time code menu but I learned to work around it.
You can also use the 4K footage, which is 4:2:0 and resize it to 1080 4:2:2 with Catalyst Browse for even better HD footage. Keep in mind that you will need a very good computer to handle 4:2:2.
I also upgraded my camera with the XLR-KM2 kit and that added another level to it.

@OldSmoke
I sold one of my cx900's just to offset cost of a new ax100 because I've been thanking about how good the footage would be if converted from 4K source.. I'm just hoping there won't be too much of a matching difference.
Considering making the ax100 the primary on a jib and crane.

So, there is a way of shutting off, Optical SteadyShot Image Stabilization? If so, when you do, then there is NO stabilization at all?
Is the AX100 THAT much better than the AX53?

The AX100 has the option to either completely switch off stabilization, set to Standard or Active. I have never used OFF by I do use Standard when on the tripod and Active when hand held.
I have not used the AX53 but I had the AX33 for a week and returned it. The image quality is by far inferior and the rather small form factor makes the camera hard to use. Keep in mind that the AX100 has a 1" sensor, a bigger lens, ND filters and as mentioned earlier, dedicated buttons for Iris, Gain & Shutter and the Exposure dial.
I am sure the AX53 is much better then the AX33 was but I doubt it is even close to the AX100.
When ever I am in the market for a new camera,I always try to download the manual of the camera I am interested in and study it.
How about a bridge camera? The latest Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RXiii is a fantastic camera in my opinion, just lacking the build in ND filters but it has the newer 1" RS sensor, 25x optical zoom and a 72mm diameter lens. There is a limitation of just below 30min continuous recording but that may not be issue for most people.