filmy - maybe you could help w. one question (& I did ask this in another post here under martox parhelia so I apologize if this comes across as a double post but it really is in both threads; anyway..)

using the preview output to firewire to advc100 say to a monitor ... how, practically speaking, would that be different than using a parhelia card & dragging the preview window to a monitor connected to video out on the card?

fwiw my pc is p4 2ghz 7200hd 640meg, but I think others would be interested based on the level of discussion here about the cards...any info would be appreciated...

I'm just getting into video and have little knowledge of video editing cards. It just seemed logical that it would be easy to find a card that basically combined 1398 with DAC/ADC for a straight connection from the card to the monitor or tape deck, for the full realtime preview/playback benefits. This doesn't appear to be the case though.

Thanks for the reply.

It's much appreciated.

Sark

Nope. I've never seen a firewire bundled into a graphics card. However they are starting to appear on motherboards and a seperate card is cheap.... about $30 US dollars.

You do not need nor do you probably want a video editing card if you'll be using Vegas. Going the digital route via firewire is far superior and far less problems.

Real time in the sense used in the forum can be confusing. Vegas is very capable of displaying the timeline "real time" on a external monitor. IF you have a very fast computer and don't over do the number of tracks, filters etc. Even if you get carried away the rate the video is played back only effects the preview, not the final render and you can always drop down the preview quality which will speed up play back.

If you must absolutely see a short range of video in true real time you can always to a ram render. How much of depends on how much memory you have.

Some of the ATI All In Wonder cards come with firewire capability (along with analog capture/playback). However, you can't play back your preview via the TV Out. Canapus makes a card that is bundled with Vegas that has firewire and Video in/out. It's around $450 i thnk.

Firstly - Matrox Parhelia isn't (yet) a valid preview/pre-render output device. Only DV. As you can capture from a VfW device in Vegas - you might have thought you could output to the directshow interface aswell as DV - which Matrox could hook in on. If you drag the window to a display that is part of your desktop - don't assume that it will be accurate if you stretch the display area so the window border doesn't show - chances are this won't be a true pixel representation AR wise etc.

Parhelia is better than your G450 for playback of DV/MJPEG as it doesn't restrict the palette to 16bit which G series cards do on video output. Sometimes this is OK for analysis of your work - but colour purity is best done at 24bits per pixel - Perhelia steps in more than adequately here - BUT OUTSIDE OF VEGAS. Vegas BLiTs the image onto its preview window - so the PureVideo/DVDMax mode of the Matrox drivers can't hook in.

Pinnacle Systems Studio Deluxe 8 has a DV card with analogue I/O. Can't personally recommend it or slam it.
DV Plus is the same sort of thing but just has DV output as analogue on it (mostly to serve the UK market where low end cameras have no DV-in).

Canopus ADVC-1394 is like the above Deluxe 8 with both I/O but from a company that is more than a tad better than Pinnacle for customer support and quality of product.

However Canopus' ADVC-100 is about the same price and in my opinion is worth having a cheapo 1394 PCI card alongside in your PC for the extra flexibility it furnishes.

I suspect that SoFo will be encouraged to support non-BLiT options for preview so as to support DVDMax type features. That only means that it depends on the driver from the card manufacturer as to whether you get accurate field dominance etc. G450 DVDMax had a tendency (unless you play with the control panel settings from default) to give reverse dominance periodically on PAL footage.

Ultimately - folk with DVD burners, or DVD set top players than can play mini-DVD - can knock out a final quality-check piece indirectly. Some recent DVD players even have an ethernet ability to connect to your PC and play MPEG-2.mpg files. If otherwise you wouldn't actually be acquisitioning/targetting on DV, you might consider this technique for PAL work on flash.AVIs?

RB..Your last point is interesting. I had considered that if a DVD player could convert the DVD's digital info to analog for playback on screen, then it should be possible to send the digital signal directly from the PC to use the DVD player as an ADC. I, personally however, could find no units that where capable of this in the UK.

I'm now coming round to accepting that the Canopus ADVC100 should be my final purchase, this does at least keep the analog transcoding outside the PC enviroment, it will also serve as an audio transcoder for my vinyl to CDR needs.

Thanks once again for the replies, it's much appreciated.

Sark

sorry for changing the subject line Sark. It was the fault of Mozilla - my current browser which otherwise suits me.

http://uk.pricerunner.com/sound-and-vision/vision/dvd-players/149083/prices
Kiss DP-500 supports audio and video over ethernet - circa UK£192 (scan.co.uk) - check which codecs.

DP-450 precursor to it - available on www.specialreserve.com (UK).


This DVD player has ethernet - this is one OEM incarnation. I glanced over a similar model in the UK (Cyberhome possibly).
http://www.globalmart.com/page/d/d2730.htm US$299

I've read that the X-box can be adjusted internally or with a specially made boot-DVD and that the TV-encoder on it has possibly useful 10-bit DACs. I don't quite understand why Microsoft let people do this themselves as clearly they should be making money on such things by supplying such features as an upgrade pack - thereby preserving their OS purchases, investment in Xbox and their relationship with Dell for bottom end feeder computers etc.

The US folks are supposed to have the Microsoft endorsed HD-720-WMV9 playing Polaroid Electronics DVD-DVR700 for $299 with ethernet "streaming" - possibly a subscription service over the web and not your PC- not sure.

Two and a half options anyway, two that are available in the UK.

RB.. Many thanks...I will check these out in the morning. I'm on my home PC at the moment, which is Pay as you go, crawls at the best of times, and regularly freezes on commercial, image laden, sites. (Poor physical line condition among other things).

Because my final output is primarily DVD-R, the idea of a DVD player as a DAC seemed logical, I figured testing of the final DVD-R would also be better represented through a quality player and V/Monitor, rather than via the PC to V/Monitor.
The price of DVD players in th UK are as low as £60, so £200/£300 should theoretically get you a cracker.
I know the Canopus ADVC100 is respected, but its price (approx £300 UK) is not just representitive of its quality, so much as the low commercial demand compared to DVD players.

The X-box is an unlikely route, due to retailers guarentee getout clauses, regarding alterations.

Will take another look at the DVD player option, but suspect I'll soon be ordering a Canopus irrespective of it not being the best value for money choice in my opinion.

Thanks again.

Sark

I would like to mention a thread on the pinnacle DV500 forum about this topic where someone was able to configure video out and wrote very detailed information on his/her procedure. It was on the General Info board a month or so past, and I recall the moderator mentioning that it would be archived on the 'Best of the Boards' forum.

Hope this is helpful.

franco

Firstly, thanks to all those that replied to this thread.

Spent the morning on google. Decided the DVD route is just to messy, but I now think I have solved my problem. With a little more knowledge gained from posting here I've now taken a closer look at the Canopus ACEDvio...

http://www.canopus-uk.com/US/products/ACEDVio/pt_ACEDVio.asp

As far as my knowledge extends,this appears to be exactly what I am looking for.
At around £220 in the UK (£400 with VV4 bundled) it does appear to be the best value setup for my needs. It's association with SoFo seems to confirm it will offer the best real time previews from VV for a currently available editing card.

Thanks again for the replies.

Sark

Sark,

I'm using the Pinnacle Moviebox DV.. works absolutley great and it doesn't cost a lot.. It's a standalone converter that let's Vegas preview everything on anything.. And captuere anything.. I've connected a tv to it, and a VCR, and it works great. Just don't use the software ;)

Buy a camcorder,the Sony digital8"s seem to work well and reliably, it makes so much more sense. It's possible to enable DV-in on European camcorders, using an easy and inexpensive to build gadget, (about $5-$10 in parts). Do a search on Google on this topic, and you'll find reams of information, including info on how to enable hidden functionality thjat camcorders dont usually have-such as manual white balance, zebra stripe metering, etc. Good luck..