realtime video capture

Kris_Blom wrote on 9/25/2000, 12:24 PM

That's a big question... My current setup is working great which is
a PIII 550, 256MB RAM, Dual WD 7200rpm 20GB HDDs, Win98SE, and Pyro
Capture card. The capture card works great even with cameras that
are not on "the list". Using VV Capture your file format will be
NTSC DV Type-1 AVI Version 2 files, and then in VV you can convert
them to anything imaginable.
As far as capturing sound I'm not sure I understand your question.
Your sound on your DV is CD quality and imports at the same time as
the video, then in VV you can "seperate" the audio from video and go
from there. Also, you can record live audio into VV on as many
tracks as you want, but this is a diferent subject that capturing
video, and other than the DV audio, you would never want to (and
couldn't) capture live audio at the same time you capture DV
audio/video. Capture your DV video/audio first, then from VV add all
the additional audio you want from your sound card, and can easily
sync it up to video down to the frame level.
Hope this helps...

Myrick wrote:
>>Okay! I bot VV, but now I have to put together new machine
>>to run it on, incl choosing vid capture card.
>>
>>Will any camera/card/software combination allow me to do
>>realtime video capture/record direct to HD, in whatever
>>file format - even low res - into VV? If not, any
>>workarounds?
>>
>>At the same time, I'd like to record a track of audio
>>through a separate input, but synced at record.
>>
>>Does current/future VV do this?

Marvin wrote on 9/25/2000, 8:39 PM

Thanks Kris.

But just to make sure we're on the same page, by "realtime capture" I
mean:
Plug my camera into the card,
point it at something,
hit "record" (on VV and camera), and
record video direct to HD or RAM.

I think what you are saying is that this can be done, but could you
reconfirm?

For background, my sought-after purpose is for musical instrument
teaching. Aim the setup at a student's hands, record a passage, and
get immediately playback for analysis, ideally with slo-mo, rather
like athletes are now doing. I won't really need to render to hi-res
video for playback, but will need the time-stretch effect. This, plus
NLE capabilities should make VV much more powerful for my purposes
than just using tape. However, obviously I need good quality audio
synced with the live take.

The second part of my question concerned this simultaneous audio.
What I'd like is to be able to use a good quality mike. I think I
hear you saying that I can record live DV direct to disk, with its
associated audio track, but not a separate audio track at the same
time. If so, perhaps my solution is to see if my camera has an
external mike input. (I have the little Canon i-something-or-other,
I'll check when I get home). However, since I want to use non-pitch-
shift time stretch on both audio and video, I wonder if this can be
done directly in the DV audio track. Stripping the audio out of the
DV track into a wave audio track adds another step, and part of my
goal is to provide rapid visual/audio feedback and analysis, when the
performance is still fresh in (the student's) short-term memory.

To recap:
Can I record video direct to disk as explained above?
(If so, can I slave camera transport (record, stop) to VV?)
Any easy way to get a separate, processable audio track in the
same live take?

Thanks.

P.S. I am getting ready to build a muscle PC to handle all this - I
just want to settle the add-in card questions first.

Kris Blom wrote:
>>That's a big question... My current setup is working great which
is
>>a PIII 550, 256MB RAM, Dual WD 7200rpm 20GB HDDs, Win98SE, and Pyro
>>Capture card. The capture card works great even with cameras that
>>are not on "the list". Using VV Capture your file format will be
>>NTSC DV Type-1 AVI Version 2 files, and then in VV you can convert
>>them to anything imaginable.
>>As far as capturing sound I'm not sure I understand your question.
>>Your sound on your DV is CD quality and imports at the same time as
>>the video, then in VV you can "seperate" the audio from video and
go
>>from there. Also, you can record live audio into VV on as many
>>tracks as you want, but this is a diferent subject that capturing
>>video, and other than the DV audio, you would never want to (and
>>couldn't) capture live audio at the same time you capture DV
>>audio/video. Capture your DV video/audio first, then from VV add
all
>>the additional audio you want from your sound card, and can easily
>>sync it up to video down to the frame level.
>>Hope this helps...
>>
>>
>>Myrick wrote:
>>>>Okay! I bot VV, but now I have to put together new machine
>>>>to run it on, incl choosing vid capture card.
>>>>
>>>>Will any camera/card/software combination allow me to do
>>>>realtime video capture/record direct to HD, in whatever
>>>>file format - even low res - into VV? If not, any
>>>>workarounds?
>>>>
>>>>At the same time, I'd like to record a track of audio
>>>>through a separate input, but synced at record.
>>>>
>>>>Does current/future VV do this?

Kris_Blom wrote on 9/26/2000, 11:01 AM

I havn't tried "Live" capture yet as all my stuff is pre-recorded
first, but I do think it will work. I will confirm this tonight and
let you know. As far as the whole audio thing, it is important to
realize that VV Capture is nothing to do really with VV. You first
run the Capture program to transfer your DV to your PC. Once that is
done, you then create a new project in VV and "bring in" your DV
footage, which will include the original audio tracks, then you do
your stretching etc. There is no way to Arm a VV track for audio
record and simultaneously capture synchronized video from a camera.
Apples and Oranges. Get a high quality external mike for your
camera, and you will be importing CD quality, synchronized audio with
your DV when you capture it.
I understand exactly what you are seeking, and I say it all can be
done...BUT...NL editing is not as fast as you might want it to be.
After you tape the student, it could be an hour or so by the time you
edit it as described and there will be a large learning curve as
well. You may have to tape them first, then review the clips with
them during the next class or something. The realtime preview in VV
is fast, is in realtime, and can be viewed on a TV, but I don't think
it is the quality you need for your purposes as it will intentionally
skip frames etc. You would then need to render the job for quality
which takes more time. I think you should carefully look at your
linear analog equipment options for your needs... I have been a music
student and I wouldn't want to sit there and watch you fumble around
with the computer while I waited. Again, if it can wait until next
lesson/class, then you might have something here, otherwise get a
good VCR and play it back in slow mo...
I'll let you know about Live Record.

Myrick wrote:
>>Thanks Kris.
>>
>>But just to make sure we're on the same page, by "realtime capture"
I
>>mean:
>> Plug my camera into the card,
>> point it at something,
>> hit "record" (on VV and camera), and
>> record video direct to HD or RAM.
>>
>>I think what you are saying is that this can be done, but could you
>>reconfirm?
>>
>>For background, my sought-after purpose is for musical instrument
>>teaching. Aim the setup at a student's hands, record a passage, and
>>get immediately playback for analysis, ideally with slo-mo, rather
>>like athletes are now doing. I won't really need to render to hi-
res
>>video for playback, but will need the time-stretch effect. This,
plus
>>NLE capabilities should make VV much more powerful for my purposes
>>than just using tape. However, obviously I need good quality audio
>>synced with the live take.
>>
>>The second part of my question concerned this simultaneous audio.
>>What I'd like is to be able to use a good quality mike. I think I
>>hear you saying that I can record live DV direct to disk, with its
>>associated audio track, but not a separate audio track at the same
>>time. If so, perhaps my solution is to see if my camera has an
>>external mike input. (I have the little Canon i-something-or-other,
>>I'll check when I get home). However, since I want to use non-pitch-
>>shift time stretch on both audio and video, I wonder if this can be
>>done directly in the DV audio track. Stripping the audio out of the
>>DV track into a wave audio track adds another step, and part of my
>>goal is to provide rapid visual/audio feedback and analysis, when
the
>>performance is still fresh in (the student's) short-term memory.
>>
>>To recap:
>> Can I record video direct to disk as explained above?
>> (If so, can I slave camera transport (record, stop) to VV?)
>> Any easy way to get a separate, processable audio track in the
>>same live take?
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>P.S. I am getting ready to build a muscle PC to handle all this - I
>>just want to settle the add-in card questions first.
>>
>>Kris Blom wrote:
>>>>That's a big question... My current setup is working great which
>>is
>>>>a PIII 550, 256MB RAM, Dual WD 7200rpm 20GB HDDs, Win98SE, and
Pyro
>>>>Capture card. The capture card works great even with cameras
that
>>>>are not on "the list". Using VV Capture your file format will be
>>>>NTSC DV Type-1 AVI Version 2 files, and then in VV you can
convert
>>>>them to anything imaginable.
>>>>As far as capturing sound I'm not sure I understand your
question.
>>>>Your sound on your DV is CD quality and imports at the same time
as
>>>>the video, then in VV you can "seperate" the audio from video and
>>go
>>>>from there. Also, you can record live audio into VV on as many
>>>>tracks as you want, but this is a diferent subject that capturing
>>>>video, and other than the DV audio, you would never want to (and
>>>>couldn't) capture live audio at the same time you capture DV
>>>>audio/video. Capture your DV video/audio first, then from VV add
>>all
>>>>the additional audio you want from your sound card, and can
easily
>>>>sync it up to video down to the frame level.
>>>>Hope this helps...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Myrick wrote:
>>>>>>Okay! I bot VV, but now I have to put together new machine
>>>>>>to run it on, incl choosing vid capture card.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Will any camera/card/software combination allow me to do
>>>>>>realtime video capture/record direct to HD, in whatever
>>>>>>file format - even low res - into VV? If not, any
>>>>>>workarounds?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>At the same time, I'd like to record a track of audio
>>>>>>through a separate input, but synced at record.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Does current/future VV do this?

Kris_Blom wrote on 9/27/2000, 12:41 PM

Sorry... It does not appear as VV Capture will capture live video
feed. When you click the "Capture Now" button it trys to start the
camera playback mode and camera must be in VCR mode. But for live
capture the camera of course must be in camera mode. The live "pass
through" video feed shows up well in VV Capture preview window, but
like I said, everything goes bonkers when you click "capture now".
There may be some set up options I missed but since I don't need live
capture...... More evidence that analog hardware may be a better fit
for your particular needs than NLE.

Kris Blom wrote:
>>I havn't tried "Live" capture yet as all my stuff is pre-recorded
>>first, but I do think it will work. I will confirm this tonight
and
>>let you know. As far as the whole audio thing, it is important to
>>realize that VV Capture is nothing to do really with VV. You first
>>run the Capture program to transfer your DV to your PC. Once that
is
>>done, you then create a new project in VV and "bring in" your DV
>>footage, which will include the original audio tracks, then you do
>>your stretching etc. There is no way to Arm a VV track for audio
>>record and simultaneously capture synchronized video from a camera.
>>Apples and Oranges. Get a high quality external mike for your
>>camera, and you will be importing CD quality, synchronized audio
with
>>your DV when you capture it.
>>I understand exactly what you are seeking, and I say it all can be
>>done...BUT...NL editing is not as fast as you might want it to be.
>>After you tape the student, it could be an hour or so by the time
you
>>edit it as described and there will be a large learning curve as
>>well. You may have to tape them first, then review the clips with
>>them during the next class or something. The realtime preview in
VV
>>is fast, is in realtime, and can be viewed on a TV, but I don't
think
>>it is the quality you need for your purposes as it will
intentionally
>>skip frames etc. You would then need to render the job for quality
>>which takes more time. I think you should carefully look at your
>>linear analog equipment options for your needs... I have been a
music
>>student and I wouldn't want to sit there and watch you fumble
around
>>with the computer while I waited. Again, if it can wait until next
>>lesson/class, then you might have something here, otherwise get a
>>good VCR and play it back in slow mo...
>>I'll let you know about Live Record.
>>
>>
>>Myrick wrote:
>>>>Thanks Kris.
>>>>
>>>>But just to make sure we're on the same page, by "realtime
capture"
>>I
>>>>mean:
>>>> Plug my camera into the card,
>>>> point it at something,
>>>> hit "record" (on VV and camera), and
>>>> record video direct to HD or RAM.
>>>>
>>>>I think what you are saying is that this can be done, but could
you
>>>>reconfirm?
>>>>
>>>>For background, my sought-after purpose is for musical instrument
>>>>teaching. Aim the setup at a student's hands, record a passage,
and
>>>>get immediately playback for analysis, ideally with slo-mo,
rather
>>>>like athletes are now doing. I won't really need to render to hi-
>>res
>>>>video for playback, but will need the time-stretch effect. This,
>>plus
>>>>NLE capabilities should make VV much more powerful for my
purposes
>>>>than just using tape. However, obviously I need good quality
audio
>>>>synced with the live take.
>>>>
>>>>The second part of my question concerned this simultaneous audio.
>>>>What I'd like is to be able to use a good quality mike. I think I
>>>>hear you saying that I can record live DV direct to disk, with
its
>>>>associated audio track, but not a separate audio track at the
same
>>>>time. If so, perhaps my solution is to see if my camera has an
>>>>external mike input. (I have the little Canon i-something-or-
other,
>>>>I'll check when I get home). However, since I want to use non-
pitch-
>>>>shift time stretch on both audio and video, I wonder if this can
be
>>>>done directly in the DV audio track. Stripping the audio out of
the
>>>>DV track into a wave audio track adds another step, and part of
my
>>>>goal is to provide rapid visual/audio feedback and analysis, when
>>the
>>>>performance is still fresh in (the student's) short-term memory.
>>>>
>>>>To recap:
>>>> Can I record video direct to disk as explained above?
>>>> (If so, can I slave camera transport (record, stop) to VV?)
>>>> Any easy way to get a separate, processable audio track in the
>>>>same live take?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>P.S. I am getting ready to build a muscle PC to handle all this -
I
>>>>just want to settle the add-in card questions first.
>>>>
>>>>Kris Blom wrote:
>>>>>>That's a big question... My current setup is working great
which
>>>>is
>>>>>>a PIII 550, 256MB RAM, Dual WD 7200rpm 20GB HDDs, Win98SE, and
>>Pyro
>>>>>>Capture card. The capture card works great even with cameras
>>that
>>>>>>are not on "the list". Using VV Capture your file format will
be
>>>>>>NTSC DV Type-1 AVI Version 2 files, and then in VV you can
>>convert
>>>>>>them to anything imaginable.
>>>>>>As far as capturing sound I'm not sure I understand your
>>question.
>>>>>>Your sound on your DV is CD quality and imports at the same
time
>>as
>>>>>>the video, then in VV you can "seperate" the audio from video
and
>>>>go
>>>>>>from there. Also, you can record live audio into VV on as many
>>>>>>tracks as you want, but this is a diferent subject that
capturing
>>>>>>video, and other than the DV audio, you would never want to
(and
>>>>>>couldn't) capture live audio at the same time you capture DV
>>>>>>audio/video. Capture your DV video/audio first, then from VV
add
>>>>all
>>>>>>the additional audio you want from your sound card, and can
>>easily
>>>>>>sync it up to video down to the frame level.
>>>>>>Hope this helps...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Myrick wrote:
>>>>>>>>Okay! I bot VV, but now I have to put together new machine
>>>>>>>>to run it on, incl choosing vid capture card.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Will any camera/card/software combination allow me to do
>>>>>>>>realtime video capture/record direct to HD, in whatever
>>>>>>>>file format - even low res - into VV? If not, any
>>>>>>>>workarounds?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>At the same time, I'd like to record a track of audio
>>>>>>>>through a separate input, but synced at record.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Does current/future VV do this?