I second the GL-2... although I haven't managed to get my hands on one yet. I have, however, played around a bit with the GL-1, and to honest with you, it was well, well worth the money.

Jdozz,

Your search has missed several message threads on this subject. The Canon XL-1S street prices a few hundred bucks higher than the top of your range, so I guess we can eliminate it based on price. It uses interchangeable lenses, so optics would be very good with it. Owners of Canon SLRs can use their lenses with it. I guess you could attach a Canon Tilt-and-Shift lens and have perspective control and tilted focal planes with it. That would give you view camera versatility in a video camera.

The new Canon GL2 would be a good candidate, but without the lens shenanigans. Its MSRP is $3,199, but it might street price into your price range. It has a Canon 20X optical zoom (4.2mm-84mm) lens and optical image stabilization.

Staying under $2500, Sony has strong candidates. The Sony DCR-VX2000 sells for about $1800. You also might want to consider the Sony DSR-PD150 (mini DVCAM & Mini DV) for about $2400.

As far as lens sharpness is concerned, you probably should also consider the CCD resolutions, which vary quite a bit among various models. Frequently the CCDs, and not the lenses, are the "weakest link." Some of the newer Sony models have megapixel CCDs, which raise the bar significantly in that area. You probably want to eliminate all of the single CCD models. Another thing to watch is the actual focal length range of the optical zoom. At least one new model (I think it was a Panasonic) has a very useful "wide angle" zoom that can give you higher quality wide angle than screwing on a wide angle attachment. Don't discount the importance of wide angle. I keep a 0.6X wide angle attachment on my Sony almost all the time, and yet frequently find situations where I would like to go wider. I don't know why people want the extreme telephotos -- you can't hand hold them anyway.

-- seeker --

I third the GL2 rec's. I picked up a GL1 for $1,800 recently, including a 3 year warranty and I'm a bit envious of the GL2's manual controls. I also have a Centruy Optics wide-angle lens -- though I'd suggest a wide-angle adapter over a (bayonet mounted) lens based on my experiences (very difficult and cumbersome if you want to use an ND or other filter...)

- jim

Seeker, where can I find a PD150 for $2400? Actually, within the next week or so I will be buying a PD150 and an XL1S. At the moment I'm looking at Bilibi with a PD150 for $2685 and an XL1S for $2945. They have bad reviews for suddenly being out of stock if you don't agree to buy overpriced accessories but I need accessories anyway and it seems for me to buy $500-$600 of overpriced stuff is still a much better deal than anywhere else I've found. Any comment would be very much appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Randy

If you see a PD150 for less than about $3,200, then it is probably "gray market" and should be avoided. I bought mine recently from B&H Photo for about $3,400 and while I may have paid a tiny bit too much, as far as I'm concerned B&H is the most reputable firm in the mail-order pro-video business.

John

Yah! and watch out for those "extras" in an underpriced camera. Although I've never owned a 3-chip, I always buy top-of-the-line, 1 chip cameras and buy good accessories separately. I've seen my cameras advertised with "extras" that are nothing but cheap junk!

Thanks for the warnings John and Paul. Neither are gray market (according to their website). And yes I've had many people suggest the "retail" stores because of the great service etc. but I just can't justify that much of a price difference (I'm having to get an SBA loan). 80% of the reviews I've read on this store complain of the store being out of stock after not accepting some over-priced accessories(and it taking 4-6 weeks to get their merchandise). The other 20% of (favorable) reviews declare they are selling near cost and can justify paying extra for (name brand, quality) accessories (especially if you need them anyway). I've been burned before, but according to *my* math, it's worth the risk.
Thanks again,
Randy

If 80/20 is an acceptable risk, then go for it. If you do happen to end up having a smooth transaction with them, then please let us know. I'm going to eventually buy more PD-150's and it would be nice to save $1,000 on each of them.

John

Boy, I stumbled on a find recently. Got a 15 month old XL-1 with about 12 hours on it for $1500. I snapped it up before the old owner had a chance to think about it.
Sometimes, I get lucky.... :)

Will do John...wish me luck! Actually I just checked the Bizrate site to see if they were still at an 80% negative review status; they're up to 50/50 (for what that's worth).
Randy

I wouldn't buy anything from anyone that didn't have over an 80 percent approval ratung (given at least 20 reviews) You are rolling the dice. B&H is very competive, also Zotz, Pro Max etc-----go with a reputable dealer even it means paying a couple of bucks more.

Thanks Rextillion,
>go with a reputable dealer even it means paying a couple of bucks more.<
I wouldn't mind paying *500* bucks more, but $4,640.00 compared to $2685 tells me B&H is a little greedy (or have some kind of service that I'm not aware of). If you go to the bizrate site you'll see that it's actually 50% (instead of 80% that I erroneously wrote initially)disgruntled customers and about 100% of that 50% is pissed about the weasly, coniving, deceitful practice of not selling (without a 4-6 week wait)at the advertised price. However if I have to pay $1955 in overpriced accessories I'd break even. Maybe I should tell the salesman that I'll give him an extra $500 (buying no accessories)if the cameras can ship right away?
Thanks again Rextillion and sorry for taking over your thread jdozz.
Randy

$4,640 is NOT the real B&H price. Authorized Sony dealers are not allowed to advertise discount prices on the Internet. You must actually ask them for their better price. That's what the "E-mail me a better price" link is all about. I'm pretty sure the B&H price on the PD-150 is about $3,449.

John

Not only do you have to ask the price, but you have to do it every time, I find, even if you have an account. Same goes for educational discounts. If you don't ASK, it is full list.

And don't forget the tact of asking them if they will match prices. If it is a legitimate business that they actually consider legitimate (some are obviously scams with such low prices that no one would believe them) BH will usually match. I just bought some hardware, List $699, BH price was $$629, but, after giving them a legitimate website with a lower price, they matched it at $559.95. And the $15.65 shipping was reasonable, too, especially since they shipped that day (I ordered by 9:30, the shipping was out by 3:00.).

Ok, I will speak up and throw in my 2 cents worth. I bought my PD-150 from B&H. That price included which was $3,400 and included a great case for it as well as a raincoat for it that has been a lifesaver. Those were useful accessories.

There is something to watch out for is that there are still some older PD-150's out there without the mic preamp fix. These tend to end up at retailers like the internet one.

I use a solid dealer who is Sony Authorized because if there is a problem with the equipment it caqn be quickly resolved. That is important when you are a business. I have to know exact delivery and I have to have problems resolved. If I sit around screwing with a dealer it costs me more money than you are going to save. It also helps me get good quality accessories. B&H is just one of the many good choices out there, but I would beware of anything that is that far below the price that all reputable dealers are selling for. A couple hundred less is probably ok, but that much gives me cause for concern.

IMHO

I'll chime in on the Sony PD-150 which I liked so much I picked up two more. Two of them have the Century WA adapter (it's a bayonette mount) and though they make the unit a tad nose heavy (they're pricey too at about $700 each), overall it's still a much more managable camcorder than an XL1 - which I wouldn't give a nickle for.

The two built-in XLR jacks are perfect for our needs, the Lithium F960 batteries are great, and the cameras don't draw as much attention. Of course some folks crave the attention and they hence, may find something like an XL1 more to their taste . . . however, in side-by-side split-screen comparisons, the PD-150 produces an image more pleasing to our eyes (and the 7 folks who kindly participated in our double-blind split-screen testing - ranging from unknowledgable 'civilians', to quite expert cameramen).

Anyway, not to start a pissing contest, just letting you know how I voted my company's money.

Randy,

"Seeker, where can I find a PD150 for $2400?"

In the September 2002 issue of Camcorder & Computer Video magazine, the Royal Camera & Video Inc. ad on page 55 lists the Sony DSR-PD150 Digital Camcorder at $2399.99 as "Now in Stock!" Across the top of the ad it says, "Free tripod, cleaning system and tape with every camcorder purchase!" I have never had dealings with Royal, so I can't vouch for them. I don't know how much screening, if any, the magazine does on their advertisers. I don't know if this is a "gray market" item, but in the very fine print at the bottom of the ad it says, "Items carry either overseas, USA or Royal Warranty." I don't think I would want an overseas warranty.

Turn the page and on page 57 CCI Camera City Inc. also has the DSR-PD150 for $2399.99. (and the Canon XL-1S for $2699.99).

-- Burton --