In a pinch I've used my DV cam to record video and transferred that to my NLE. Works OK.

Absolutely. I can't imagine a minidisc recorder will perform significantly better than the sound track on a DV cam. You could keep it in a bag or at least leave the lens cap on if you think the fact that it is a camera will disturb the talent.
Tor

If I use my DV Camera...in a bag or with the lens cap on...won't I end up with Giga bytes of blank video? Seems a bit inefficient. Is there a way to just extract audio from the tape in the camera using the Firewire interface?

You can't capture just the audio with SonicFoundry's VidCap. Maybe Scenalyzer Live can do this. Someone who's used it can probably chime in.

That being said, you have two options without resoring to other software. Capture the complete DV file with VidCap, place it on the timeline, render it to a .wav file, then delete the captured .avi file. This render should go very fast. The other option is to connect the audio line out from the camera to the computer's sound card and record the audio through analog. The first option is probably better if you've got the space to temporarily hold the .avi files.

Hook your DV cam audio out up to your computer (the audio out). Most camera have at least an RCA out and mono out. You can probely get any converter at radio shack (or a simular store). Windows has the sound recorder. Not the best recorder in the world, but it supports input monitoring.

Jay Rose's Audio Solutions column at dv.com is the bible (as far as I'm concerned) on this kind of thing. He did a great review of camera audio a while ago, and available at http://www.dv.com/features/features_item.jhtml?category=Archive&LookupId=/xml/feature/2002/rose_feature1102. Very informative stuff.

Bottom line, you should try to capture digital and then transfer digitally to get best results and maintain sync. A cassette recorder may be an especially risky proposition as far as sync is concerned (unless the segments are really short). MD or Portable DAT will give the best results.

I think there maybe some MD players that have digital out. Ask on the dv.com audio forum - someone there will certainly be able to help...

/BILLW

Here's a dv.com Audio Solutions forum message from Jay Rose himself that seems to fit the bill:

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I have recorded thousands of field interviews, from on-the-street to senators and Hollywood stars.

The most important thing, I've found, is the mic: a good short shotgun (I use an AKG CK8 or CK98), either hand-held or on a stand, no more than a foot from the subject's mouth. Keep it out of their direct sightline (the interviewer should be holding eye contact, anyway); I usually come up from about 10" below and in front of their jaw, angled directly to the mouth.

This gives you a vocal intimacy without any sort of intimidation.

A modern MD recorder should be fine, if you can find one that lets you manually adjust the volume during record. Or a hard disc recorder, or the Marantz portable CD recorder (about $750 street). I use either a Tascam portable DAT or a Marantz portable MD, depending on how I feel that day.

Don't forget good isolating headphones. If you're doing the interview, listen at the head and tail and take them off for the body of the interview.

Interview technique... now that's another topic.

Thanks for all your inputs guys...!

Hi Kered5,

Having my narrations recorded literally thousands of times, under all kinds if situations in the last few decades, here's my take.

If at all possible, arrange to have your narrations recorded in a professional narration studio. This is especially important when working with individuals who are inexperienced narrators. People who are inexperienced tend to fidget and create distractions for themselves which can be more easily dealt with in a professional studio with an experienced engineer. The studio will have a good acoustic environment, be well lit, (which is necessary if your narrators need to refer to notes or a script), and will be set up in a way which will help your narrators to feel comfortable. There will also be a good selection of microphoes, audio processing equipment which can help your narrators sound more "present", and several methods of getting the audio into your editing system.

I can't tell you how many times I've worked with video people who thought they could save a few bucks by getting around using a pro studio, who ended up paying a lot more in editing time, etc.

Now, if it is impossible to get your people to a professional studio, here are the next items to be concerned with in order of importance (most important first.)

1) The acoustic environment. You need to consider both noise isolation, and the acoustic quality of the area you're recording in. If you're recording in a garage, and you're interviewing auto mechanics, this might not be a problem, since the environment will sound like a garage. However, if you need to edit the narration, any background sound will also be included, and anytime you edit speech, you will also need to consider that you'll need to match any background noise. Also, any background noise will be distracting to your message. The acoustinc quality of the room is dependent on the kind of acoustic reflections you get from the room's walls. There are all kinds of factors which can make a narration sound amatuer or unpleasant, so be sure to test the room first.

2) The microphone. I have recorded narrations directly into a camera's microphone, and the narration apparently worked for the producers. However, most of the time, this is an extremely bad idea. As you might expect, camera noise can be a real problem. Also, it's really wierd to talk into a camera from less than a foot away. Shotgun microphones are often used for narration, and can work well. They are especially useful in "live" rooms where echo is a problem. You can buy microphones which are reasonably suited to narration for under a hundred dollars, even from Radio Shack, though I wouldn't recommend those. Laveliers have been used with some success for narration if the disadvantages of laveliers (clothing rustle, etc.) is considered. A good mic stand with a boom is also extremely helpful.

3) The recording equipment. I've recorded projects which have been mastered onto an analog cassette machine, which have run on network television, and nobody complained. It is possible to get a decent narration from almost any kind of properly functioning audio recording equipment so long as the recording volume is set properly. Too low, you get noise, to high you get distortion. It's a good idea to have recording equipment which has some sort of indicator to indicate proper recording level. Using equipment with automatic volume controls, can cause problems -- it tends to bring up background noise, as well as a person's breathing, which makes them sound even more nervous than they already are.

4)A relaxing environment, well lit, if notes or scripts are needed, with few distractions is helpful. Also making sure there's plenty if time to do the narration is important. Sometimes having the narrators do a rehearsal, while recording them without their knowledge, then using the rehearsal "takes" interspersed with the "actual" takes works well.


Good Luck,

Travis
Travis Voice Services
www.Announcing.Biz

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Solution for a restrained budget and thight space:
If you have an input for a mic on your camera, just find the best mic you can, hook it up to the cam and use this one to record. Then try to adapt to the environment; caught in traffic and nowhere to go? hop in the car and record it there, etc...
Like Chienworks said, if you have space on your drive(s),you just delete these .avi files after. Works well depending on the cam of course (the "sound module/preamp" of the cam, that is...). But nevertheless better than use the cam's mic.

I record all of my narration on DVCAM now. If we're using the sound prooofed studio the camera goes on a tripod and an AKG mic is plugged into it. Field we use either the C74 or ECM-77B, wired version.

Post process is the same whether its going into the AVID PC or either VVs: open Sound Forge, set the levels and capture to the hard drive. Exactly the same process we used with BetaSp except we could use the DSR 570 camcorder as the "source deck" if we had to.

Our professional "voices" in Edmonton often record directly to Betacam,DVCPRO or DVCAM.

Peter

Use Sound forge, it is an economical application that should do a good job or if you have the budget Protools

Don't know why no one has mentioned that you can record directly into Vegas???

Make a new audio track. Click the record button on the track to arm it for recording. Then click the record button and you are off. It's simple to see if your VO is in sync, as you work. If you don't like something, make a new track and keep right on going.
If I'm working over a "dense" project, with a lot of audio, and/or video, I'll do a "quickie" premix (to new track) and then open this mixed audio in a whole new project. That makes it easy to see the tracks, and to sync the VO to the stills or video footage. Once I love the mix, I'll mix that to a new track, and import it into the original project. Don't erase your "work project", though, as you may have major revisions. Minor ones can be done right on the "big" project.
O
O

"Don't know why no one has mentioned that you can record directly into Vegas"

Could it be because we've read the question?
Tor

It's a pity that there's no decent quality "stenographer" style units --- you know the little hand-held thingys which save to low-quality wav or MP3. I think the best quality is about 8KHz which is shockingly bad.

I was looking for one that could do at least 22KHz 16-bit wav and have a socket for an external mic, but no luck.

Like the original questions says - who wants to re-record the whole thing again in realtime ? It'd much better just to take the recorded wav and dump it direct to SF for processing.

I too came tp the camera or minidisc end-point and didn't really like either.

Ah well.

Recording directly into the camera in 48K sampling is great quality. But beware: lower end cameras have a "limiter/compressor" in the circuit. If possible, operate manually the input levels.

Gilles

There is a portable, cheap solution. check this link out http://www.pogoproducts.com/ripflash_trio.html
although it records into mp3 format, it can do so at up to 44.1KHz@180kbs.
Accepts stereo or mono recordings via external mic jack.

I have been using a SoundDevices MixPre feeding a Creative Nomad Jukebox II (that I bought on clearance) for about 10 months now and have never had a problem. You can record uncompressed 16-bit stereo files at up to 48k and transfer the needed tracks via USB into the computer in less than half of real-time. I've never attempted to record on the move, but that doesnt seem to be a need for this request for VO work.
The newer Jukebox III models are more expensive but also have firewire transfer, better battery power and larger harddrives. On my older model with the 6gig drive I can record about 8 hours of material at 48k. If you get an older model, make sure to flash the new operating software to the recorder for best audio recording quality.
If you are using a good front end like the MixPre that has great mic preamps and built-in limiters, a good mic and good micing technique, then the Jukebox II is the best solution i've found for low-cost digital recording for use on PC's.

TheHappyFriar wrote "Windows has the sound recorder. Not the best recorder in the world, but it supports input monitoring."

Keep in mind that we are all working with one of the best multitrack audio recording programs available, Vegas. Insert an audio track, assign the audio "in" to what ever your soundcard is (ie: sblive), arm the track and press record. Check the help files for better explaination.

If you can go all digital then great but don't kill yourself to do this. If digital is too difficult to do then go the cassette route. Just use a good mic, record in a quite place and make sure the levels aren't too hot when you record. Afterwards, careful use of track EQ and Gate will do wonders for it and if need be use SF noise reduction to clena things up. It's magic!

good luck
jack

"SoundDevices MixPre feeding a Creative Nomad Jukebox II"

That's a sweet stereo preamp/mixer but whoa the price is nuts. $850.00 Obviously this is progear at a pro price.

I did a quick search over at Musicians Friend and found a Behringer stereo 5 channel XLR or line inputs with just about all the features of the Mixpre for $124.00. And it runs AC or DC. Behringer is always in the "cheap seats" but I wouldn't say it's crap. Their mixers aren't as nice as Mackies but the Behringer's are solid performers at remarkable prices.

Running a line out of this into any digital recording device that has LINE Inputs will work great. IT must be LINE INPUTS however. If you run a line out from the mixer into a "mic in" it will sound like crap. This was the problem with alot of the cheap soundblaster cards. They had mic ins that were horrid. Personally I use stage audio mics for naration. I use Shure SM58 or SM57 in a quiet setting. Get a "pop screen/filter" to cut down on plosives, however this is a bit distracting. Don't eq when recording. Keep the eq knobs straight up. Set the faders to "U" (unity) and adjust the trim on each input to get the input signals happy. Record what is there and then adjust the sound in post production.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=030317072855063160004090007331/g=live/search/detail/base_pid/631224/

jack

Just the thing ! Nice link.

But not available in Australia....

I just purchased a Sony Portable Mindisc player and I am able to transfer files both to and from the deck.