Tim_at_Boris wrote on 10/2/2003, 3:49 PM
"" It's funny that they boasted about how it integrates with VEGAS... ask us for damn near $1500... then issue a demo that doesn't even do what they say it would. ""

So yes its funny, but not funny ha ha.. Its like a slap-stick funny, its like a cynical funny.. its like stepping on the business side of a rake funny, this funny blew up in my face.. Ok its not funny.

But it is also no longer the case. It pained me to learn that the demo did not plug in. A few Vegas forum representatives contacted me, I petitioned the developers to post the real thing.. So this has been corrected, some of the posts I've just read have reported on the new experience. I sense there glee. So.. If your thinking Red 3Gl is going to behave like Red 2.1, well you need to look at the new stuff.

As far as the price, I can't promise anything, but I can say that we have exceptionally good deals for upgrades. If you own Graffiti or Calligraphy, or any Boris software- then Red is $799. That is cheaper than AE, and it plugs in, and has a ton of features that AE doesn't have.

Tim Doyle
Product Specialist
Phone 888.772.6747 ext 114


Jimmy_W wrote on 10/2/2003, 3:56 PM
Hey, I want to advertise here. Where do i sign up?
Chanimal wrote on 10/2/2003, 7:01 PM

It seems absurd, but you may wish to post as a user, rather than from Boris directly, that way "purist" like Jimmyw and a few others I've seen won't keep trying to chase you out.

Frankly, I really appreciate it that additional vendors are supporting a platform I use. I also like to hear about the new products...and this forum is a good place to find out--I have purchased numerous products (add ons and training) that I heard about within this forum (some were even from Sonic Foundry, Heaven rest it's soul).

I also don't mind if a vendor wants to answer our questions and provide additional information. I think that the feedback that Boris gets will help create an even better product for Vegas. Perhaps we can create a single thread that is vendor flame friendly--and can be avoided by those not wanting to hear marketing hype (as a marketing person I am immune).

I can certianly understand folks like Jimmyw trying to create a pure forum free of advertisement. Although I believe you have done a fairly decent job of trying to be sensitive--while still retaining the enthusiasm and pride of creating an exciting product.

To avoid potential abuse, you may wish to reply as an enthusiastic and educated user (since this is technically accurate)--this seems to be acceptable and users (even of your own product) can apparently mention price, promotions, etc. without getting flamed.

Perhaps you could use the name jimmyww as a way to pay homage and redeem yourself (and cause a bit of mischief (seen the silly Zippy dude--although he seems to be from the dark side (the competition)?).


Thanks for the info and happy "flame-stepping."

Ted Finch

Windows 11 Pro, i9 (10850k - 20 logical cores), Corsair water-cooled, MSI Gaming Plus motherboard, 64 GB Corsair RAM, 4 Samsung Pro SSD drives (1 GB, 2 GB, 2 GB and 4 GB), AMD video Radeo RX 580, 4 Dell HD monitors.Canon 80d DSL camera with Rhode mic, Zoom H4 mic. Vegas Pro 21 Edit (user since Vegas 2.0), Camtasia (latest), JumpBacks, etc.

filmy wrote on 10/2/2003, 7:20 PM
I think that a vendor can walk a fine line between advertising something for sale and talking about a new product. This post metioned costs - a forum no-no in my eyes. His other post was more of a "Hey a lot of you wanted a free demo to show the plug-in. We have that now. And hey I am available for any questions" and that I think is ok.

Also there is a very real issue of forum participation. if TIm *only* logs on to push a cool price on an upgrade than he is obvioulsy doing a big no-no. If he logs in and answers VV questions, gives Boris tips as they relate to VV or generally involves himself in the goings on here I think it is cool too. DSE posts all the time and if he wants to mention he has a book coming out it is ok because 95 - 99% of his posts are *not* about his book. Satish makes free plug-ins so I feel if he wants to tell us all about them that is really great. I think a few others walk a thin line at times because they activly participate but also when people mention certion "bugs" or things missing they make posts about their products solving those issues. And they have been chewed out by forum users for it.

So lets give Tim a little break and see where he goes with this. Face it - lots of times people post here asking questions not directly about VV and we don't all just tell them to go to that vendors forum. How many of us have answered questions about Maxtor hard drives? After Effects? Windows? Sound cards? Video cards? Capture cards? Complete systems? Video cameras? So if Tim wants to jump in and answer questions about like items I think if he mentions a product the company he works for makes, minus any marketing and cost, we might all be more forgiving.

Jimmy_W wrote on 10/3/2003, 7:15 AM
It seems absurd, but you may wish to post as a user, rather than from Boris directly, that way "purist" like Jimmyw and a few others I've seen won't keep trying to chase you out.

I am what i am.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 10/3/2003, 7:58 AM
What new users like yourself have to take into account is that many of us have been dieing for plugin’s for Vegas for years and we have petitioned companies like Boris through emails to please make a Vegas plugin (myself included) and so when that plugin is finally available, I have no problem with someone from Boris being kind enough to come to our community and let us know that our prayers have finally been answered.

It’s not like Tim has any competition to worry about. There is a grand total of a whapping two (2) (count ‘em that’s... 1... 2...) plugin’s for Vegas. Pixelan and now Boris. Some of us are very interested and would like Boris to continue to move the remainder of their products like Boris FX and GRAFFITI to Vegas as well. So please don’t discourage someone who is responding to our requests for more plugins and information about how to obtain working demos, etc.

It may be advertising but it’s advertising something we asked for and have been waiting for, for a long time.

MDVid wrote on 10/3/2003, 8:04 AM
Boris 3 as a vegas plug-in rocks. Tim is just responding to some of the information/disinformationa and misunderstanding that has been floating around concerning Boris and Vegas. Tim, keep up the good work!

rextilleon wrote on 10/3/2003, 8:08 AM
Hey, I would never use a Boris product because of the absurd pricing (many of us dont own a Boris product and thus the deals are irrelevant). Having said that, the guy is just trying to be helpful--not sell product----He merely responded to complaints about pricing---Cut him some slack and dont be so serious.
Spot|DSE wrote on 10/3/2003, 8:35 AM
Tim Wilson is one of the very few people in the world that DOESN'T sell, he shows the feature set and lets it speak for itself. He didn't, and would never post here for value of advertising, but rather as a response to several emails from users in THIS forum. Rather than whiz all over him for "advertising", how about praising him for taking the time out to give the straight story. Particularly since both myself and a couple of others have posted about how great BORIS works in Vegas, only to be shot down by others who were having a less than great experience with the demo plug in.
farss wrote on 10/3/2003, 10:02 AM
You can count my vote alongside SPOTs.

What Tim had to say is not advertising, it's information. The fact that a perhaps overpriced but none the less highly respected product is now available for VV is nothing but good news for ALL of us even if we'll never use it or afford it.

Its one less argument for the nee sayers who say VV can't be taken seriously because it isn't supported by the big guns of third party developers.
filmy wrote on 10/3/2003, 10:14 AM
I am not sure if any of this is aimed at my post of not but just to be safe - if you actually read what I said I said "if", as in "If Tim only posts about Red..." I do think that if DSE came in here only one time and said "I have a book out for anyone who wants it. You can buy it via amazon for only..." and sort of never came back it would look like advertising. But as I said 95 - 99% of his posts have nothing to do with his book. Thusly I said to "lets see where Tim goes with this..." because he can hopefully bring more insite into VV users questions overall and not just about Boris products.

Satish has made free plug-ins, there are the Spice plugs, there are the Excalibur and Psnumi plugs and now the Red plug. The BigFX FilmFx plug was supposed ot be ready in August but there has been no further word on that. So it is growing and it is good to know about them - and as I said, in the one post Tim made it was sort of a "Lots of you wanted the free demo that worked in VV now we have one" and that is great. No problems at all.

Jimmy_W wrote on 10/3/2003, 11:19 AM

JR, New vegas user, no. New to forum, yes. And I'am quite familar with boris.
defucius wrote on 10/3/2003, 12:08 PM
What's up with this forum recently! I've been on this forum for over two years, reading, learning, and sharing infomation. I recognize a lot of familiar user IDs who have been hanging out on this forum. There seems to be some attitude change recently. Gone are the friendly, caring, and helping attitude from everybody (guess I have to say not entirely gone), replaced with all these criticizing, mocking, and finger pointing.

If there is an offending post, ignore it. Do not reply and it will die out in no time. Please do not add all the noise to this otherwise wonderful forum. And please do not act as a "forum police" (excuse me if this offends anybody), and let the Sony forum moderator to determine which post should be removed.

As a user of this forum, I plead everybody to bring back the best part of this forum and help Vegas continue to grow.

BTW, welcom to this forum, Tim. I am sure most of the Vegas users would appreciate the information about RED.
mjroddy wrote on 10/3/2003, 12:55 PM
Dead on, defucious! Here here! -mjr
jsteehl wrote on 10/3/2003, 3:01 PM
"If there is an offending post, ignore it."

"please do not act as a "forum police""

quite the ironic post. :)

...but point well taken
Spot|DSE wrote on 10/3/2003, 3:01 PM
Tim has actually/is actually leaving BorisFX for another video software manufacturer, so I doubt you'll be hearing from him here again, unless it's to say goodbye.
And from his mails, he's not leaving because he's unhappy, or anything else. Hopefully this post will dispel any rumors of that before it happens. Sometimes opportunity knocks, and you gotta answer when it does.
(Filmy, nothing aimed at you. I hadn't even read your post, only the first one in the thread was read\)
Cheesehole wrote on 10/3/2003, 3:39 PM
Hi Tim from Boris! Thanks for clearing that up and welcome to the forums. In case anyone is wondering, I was one of the people who encouraged BorisFX people to join the forums in the same spirit as MainConcept for product information and technical help. I could only wish there was any danger whatsoever of this forum becoming a target of Vegas related SPAM. LOL!!!! Someday perhaps...

But for now the participation of a BorisFX rep just means we'll get better software in the future.

Thanks again for joining the discussion Tim. Hopefully it will get more productive than it has been so far :)

So... has anyone else tried the demo? I'm hoping to tackle it this weekend. I have no problem spending that kind of money if the software is that valuable.
Bobpin wrote on 10/4/2003, 5:15 AM

My 2cnts, If it wasn't for a bit of this type of chat I would be battling to find out things as I live in the back sticks a bit and being in here I have now D/L lots of programs to use along with VV4, so for go for it.

PAW wrote on 10/4/2003, 6:38 AM

Cheesehole, have a go of the demo and share your thoughts.

The Vegas/RED combo blows me away, the only limitation I find is my imagination.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 10/4/2003, 8:00 AM
> New vegas user, no. New to forum

Oops... my mistake. Sorry Jimmy. Didn’t mean to offend.

wcoxe1 wrote on 10/7/2003, 10:27 PM
Personally, I appreciate both Tim Doyle at Boris, who started this thread, and Tim Wilson, also at Boris. I only hope that Tim Doyle has not been so put off that he backs out and leaves us to sweat.

I learned what little I know about Red 3GL from Tim Wilson, who, as Spot mentioned, is leaving Boris for another company. I wish him all the luck in the world. He has been a GREAT teacher and very forgiving of my dumb questions and comments. His tutorials are wonderful, as are his missives.

Tim Doyle is new to me. If ONLY he could be as good to all of us as Tim Wilson was to me. We can all hope and pray.

Welcome aboard, Tim Doyle! Hope to hear much from you. And, if it just happens that you ever want to announce a quite special, say a cool $1,400 reduction in the price of RED, please announce it here FIRST.
Tim_at_Boris wrote on 10/8/2003, 12:51 PM
Well I will try to support you in all the ways T Wilson did, I will be taking the first step of the 'long walk' with Tim Wilson (over to the local bar for drinks and good bye's.. hick up). Then back home to watch the Red Sox play the Yankee's in Game one of seven.

Anyway.. I don't think any one was overly harsh on this list, in fact i hope you start coming back with some citique, because we can go beyond the opening salvo of this product partnership. We can get tighter.

Any feedback on that work flow doc i placed here yesterday? Please send it on.