The first RED cams have finally shipped...This is how this camera was meant to be used. :-)
RED One
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MH_Stevens
wrote on 9/3/2007, 9:51 PM
Glen: The people making great Indies with cinema lens adapters and manual Nikon SLR lenses (AI and AIs) aren't using breathing zooms except maybe at the long end! They have a selection of 4 or 5 primes. Total price of a set about $2K. See (my site)www.lenses35.com for more info.
farss
wrote on 9/3/2007, 10:15 PM
Massive receptors and 128bit NLEs will more than compensate compensate for the difference between a 20K Red lens and a 1K used SLR lens.
Actually as receptors get bigger optics become harder to build and even more expensive. I think much beyond 35mm and it goes downhill.
It's not only about the image coming out the back of the lens, it's how easy the lens is to use, how well it works, you know that boring stuff called quality. Of course you don't need this stuff and you can sure save a fortune without it.
However keep in mind that much of that kind of kit is in very heavy usage, it has to withstand a lot of use and still work correctly. You could extend the argument to anything in this game, even the humble light stand. We mostly have the Manfrotto kit and some Matthews, you've only got pick up one of each to know which one will take a serious pounding in the back of a grips truck.
Bob.
Actually as receptors get bigger optics become harder to build and even more expensive. I think much beyond 35mm and it goes downhill.
It's not only about the image coming out the back of the lens, it's how easy the lens is to use, how well it works, you know that boring stuff called quality. Of course you don't need this stuff and you can sure save a fortune without it.
However keep in mind that much of that kind of kit is in very heavy usage, it has to withstand a lot of use and still work correctly. You could extend the argument to anything in this game, even the humble light stand. We mostly have the Manfrotto kit and some Matthews, you've only got pick up one of each to know which one will take a serious pounding in the back of a grips truck.
Bob.
apit34356
wrote on 9/3/2007, 10:48 PM
Farss is right, more pixels and more dynamic range, the optics become more critical. If you have lens that are laser scanned for detects over the operational wavelengths, you can have software that will "fix" some of problems at sensor or on the RAW data, but not all.
winrockpost
wrote on 9/4/2007, 5:46 AM
cutting edge technology is great,,this lense that lens 2k this and that.....go see the same movie in 3 different theaters and and see what happens to that beautiful footage... and see who in the theater cares or even notices,, aint about the camera
MH_Stevens
wrote on 9/4/2007, 8:45 AM
I'm not trying to be cheap. I have said the RED camera is a major step forward - we digital filmers now have all the same artistic options as 35mm film and no cumbersome CLAs. However I also say the success of Indie film makers with SLR used old cheap lenses shows that $20K lenses have little to add to the great strides made by the camera. A new generation of filmmakers, all of whom will soon be able to afford 35mm digital cameras will not be so conditioned to high priced lenses as the last generation. If my FX1 was 1080p with a large sensor to give me control over DOF I would be happy with the cheap fixed Carl Zeiss Vario Sonnar
jwcarney
wrote on 9/4/2007, 12:43 PM
With all this, I'm hoping Vegas Pro 8 will be able to work with RedCode proxies in Quicktime format. Right now no one can (not even apple), but I'm hoping by years end. On the other hand, since RedAlert can be used to convert to a supported codec, maybe Vegas will be added to a 4K workflow subforum in reduser, even if it only supports 2K for the time being.
xjerx
wrote on 9/4/2007, 1:10 PM
With a Red One coming to my doorstep this coming spring I'm hoping Vegas throws in some "red" options as well. I would love to edit my red footage on Vegas, but as it looks right now..i'm going to have to switch over to a mac/fcp platform...atleast for the red stuff. Anybody know anything concerning red and vegas?
farss
wrote on 9/4/2007, 2:13 PM
Our best hope would be if Vegas could handle Prospect2K.
Right now the only thing that can handle footage from our SI-2K is PPro and for grading AE or IRIDAS Speedgrade. CF have a QT version of Prospect2K for FCP in beta so that might offer some hope for a wider range of post options however one thing that seems to beholding it all back is QT only does 8bit RGB.
Bob.
Right now the only thing that can handle footage from our SI-2K is PPro and for grading AE or IRIDAS Speedgrade. CF have a QT version of Prospect2K for FCP in beta so that might offer some hope for a wider range of post options however one thing that seems to beholding it all back is QT only does 8bit RGB.
Bob.
farss
wrote on 9/4/2007, 2:37 PM
Mr Stevens,
do yourself a favour. Get a PL mount for your 35mm adaptor and try using a Cooke S4. It's not all just about how the image looks on the big screen (although that's damn important too), it's also about how easy it is to get that image.
The S4 series nearly never saw the light of day, thankfully someone had enough faith in the company to rescue it. What is so good about the S4 compared to the S3? Linear focussing! It might seem a trivial thing unless you're a focus puller trying to keep the talent in focus as they move towards / away from the camera. Does this matter to the story, I don't know about anyone else but having what you're looking at on the big screen go in and out of focus takes me right out the story very quickly. Unless you've got a video village with large monitors and people with sharp eyes it's damn hard to see the problem until it's a bit late.
Have you got to have this expensive kit to tell a good story?
Of course not. So why do people invest huge sums of money in these things. Because they want to remove as many of the mechanical limitations of the process of telling the story, the easier it is to capture the story the better the story gets told. Asking the talent to do a few more takes while you futz around and pray that they're in focus doesn't help the story. If you're a documentary maker most likely you get one shot at it, blow the shot because of focus problems or kit malfunction and weeks or months of work can go down the drain.
Bob.
do yourself a favour. Get a PL mount for your 35mm adaptor and try using a Cooke S4. It's not all just about how the image looks on the big screen (although that's damn important too), it's also about how easy it is to get that image.
The S4 series nearly never saw the light of day, thankfully someone had enough faith in the company to rescue it. What is so good about the S4 compared to the S3? Linear focussing! It might seem a trivial thing unless you're a focus puller trying to keep the talent in focus as they move towards / away from the camera. Does this matter to the story, I don't know about anyone else but having what you're looking at on the big screen go in and out of focus takes me right out the story very quickly. Unless you've got a video village with large monitors and people with sharp eyes it's damn hard to see the problem until it's a bit late.
Have you got to have this expensive kit to tell a good story?
Of course not. So why do people invest huge sums of money in these things. Because they want to remove as many of the mechanical limitations of the process of telling the story, the easier it is to capture the story the better the story gets told. Asking the talent to do a few more takes while you futz around and pray that they're in focus doesn't help the story. If you're a documentary maker most likely you get one shot at it, blow the shot because of focus problems or kit malfunction and weeks or months of work can go down the drain.
Bob.