Registering process sucks!

p@mast3rs wrote on 4/22/2004, 6:42 PM

Finally returned home from my job fair this week to install VV5/DVDA2 and I must say, this activation crap just doesnt cut it anymore. I am about fed up with over the freakin top activation. I realize piracy is a problem for all digital industries but has any of these companies really thought about who this truly affects? It doesnt affect the warez kiddies or pirates. They always find a way to gain access. Heck, VV4 was no stranger to that.

I just no longer see the need why legitimate users who pay hard earned money are forced to enter a serial number, register name, address, email etc for marketing crap, and then add to it an activation code.

Installed VV5/DVDA2 on my editing system that isnt and wont be connected to the net. No floppy drive, no other way to get the saved regsitration file to the other computer (no network card.) Installed VV5 and entered serial number and clicked register later....Low and behold, 30 days trial. Installed DVDA2, entered the serial number, and have only two options to register...online or from another computer.

When are companies going to realize that the only people they stop from using their product are those that are entitled to it. So as of now, I can use VV5 in trial mode and in no way can I use DVDA2 since I entered in my serial number (demo mode is no longer available.)

SONY, please address these issues and please think about who you are causing problems for....its sure not the hackers or pirates....its your customers.

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Comments

TVCmike wrote on 5/5/2004, 11:11 AM

Sony could provide activation free copies on “CD only” to customers with burned in customer numbers (which would of course have to be encrypted and sprinkled about the code to obfuscate it).

That's easy enough to break by step tracing as the program executes. All it takes is one legal copy of the program to do it, and you can crack it. Dongles? Easy enough to monitor the port traffic.

If Sony finds a copy floating around the Internet, it can look at the imbedded customer number to track it back to its source and prosecute to the fullest extent of the law.

When apps "phone home" it's difficult to say who was using it and under what circumstances. It's no different than the RIAA lawsuits - the ambiguity combined with the burden of proof on the plaintiff makes it difficult to initiate civil action. Criminal action is even more difficult because of the burden of proof.

Customers would be reluctant to "sharing" a copy if they knew there were a serial number in the code that could be tracked back to them. Would it stop the pirates? No, but nothing will. Not even dongles. It WILL stop the casual copier because it implicates them in the copying.

All you need is a firewall that blocks an app from accessing the internet, and it'll render such a scheme useless. That's unless they tie the usage of the product to the Internet. The first product that did that was Valve's Half Life, where you couldn't use the game unless it authenticated with the servers. Of course, we get back to the old argument of "no Internet, no production."

The only other way I've seen is to have a license manager server or LM, which I know has worked for a long time in the semiconductor design tool world. It's a separate server which at least one time has to connect to the home server over the Internet. Thereafter, it will administrate the licenses for the app that has to get them off the local server. When licenses expire, the LM server expires them and they have to be reacquired in the same manner. A smart IT manager will never let it get to the point where you're uncovered for licenses, and simply renew in advance.

Companies that use activation should also be REQUIRED to provide an “activation free” copy to existing customers IF they ever discontinue the product. I would like to see that in Sony’s End User License Agreement. (Actually, I’d rather see the activation go away in favor or embedded customer numbers) I’m sure Sonic Foundry Siren Jukebox and Super-Duper Music Looper customers would love to have an activation free copy of their programs so they can continue to use them after Sony drops activation support. It’s the right thing to do for a customer that paid you money because without our money, your company would cease to exist.

I absolutely agree on this one. Abandonware is difficult to deal with. Of course, the priority of a company in its death throes will likely not be to release license keys, particularly if the assets are to be assigned or sold off. In any case, this is one reason why the "warez" scene will continue to thrive.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 5/5/2004, 12:09 PM

> That's easy enough to break by step tracing as the program executes.

Hmmm... You seemed to have missed my point so perhaps I didn’t explain it well. I agree, NOTHING will stop a hacker. I was operating under the assumption that we all understood this. Copy protection is not meant to stop software pirates. You cannot stop software pirates. Just stop trying!

Copy protection is meant to stop honest people from making illegal copies because it is easy. It is just a deterrent. The average person is not going to “step trace as the program executes”. The average person is going to say no when their friend asks them for a copy because it now has identifiable information that can be traced back to that person. I was not suggesting that the software “phone home”. I was using the Internet as a metaphor for “file swapping”. (sorry if that confused you) We’re not talking about something that is fool-proof here. We’re talking about tactics to influence the behavior of honest people. Forget about influencing the dishonest people. You need a Bible and an intervention weekend for that. ;-)

My personal belief is that copy protection doesn’t work. Just remove it totally, its useless and an insult to paying customers. I still use Office 2000 because the new version has activation and I won’t buy it!!! (trust me, if Vegas ran on Linux I wouldn’t have Windows XP on my PC either) There are plenty of software companies that don’t use any copy protection and they are thriving. Trying to build copy protection that is fool-proof would be like strip searching every person that exits a department store. That is the only way to guarantee you stop theft. Well guess what? Department stores don’t strip search every customer. Software vendors shouldn’t do it either! You build the fact that there will be loses due to theft into the pricing model just like every other business in the world. It’s an unsolvable problem.

I was just offering a suggestion to Sony to deter the casual copier without impacting the paying customer who’s business depends on the legal copy that he has working when he needs it! Companies like Sony seem to think they need activation. As others have pointed out, it probably costs more to license and support than the pirating does. I work for a major software company and we don’t add activation technology to our software. Some of our products use serial numbers while others use license managers as you suggest. I’m sure there are pirated copies of those applications around but legitimate businesses don’t use pirated software. They want support and they buy legal copies. Sony should recognize that legitimate videographers are not going to steal their software and who cares whatever punks do that steal their software, they were never going to be your customers in the first place!!! (this is not game software which needs a different approach. this is business software)

IMHO, activation is unnecessary and doesn’t work. If you don’t believe me, just do a search on eBay for any Sonic Foundry product (all of which have activation) and you will find lots of bootleg copies being sold for $9.99. In fact, you will have an extremely hard time finding a legitimate copy of Sony/Sonic Foundry software on eBay. I just went through this so I know. I had to weed through a lot of pirated copies to find a real copy of ACID Pro 4.0. So customers don’t need to go to “seedy pirate sites” to avoid activation. They can buy cracked copies of any Sonic Foundry product right on eBay. (Damn, I could have bought an illegal copy on eBay easier than it took me to find a legitimate copy. But I didn’t! Why? Because legitimate customers can be trusted to “do the right thing”).

Just in case my point wasn’t clear: Sony, activation doesn’t work. Just remove it and stop pissing off your paying customers!

~jr

BillyBoy wrote on 5/5/2004, 3:25 PM

What's ever more insulting is the software developers KNOW that X number of copies with be illegally obtained and that is factored into the selling price of all software to begin with. Its part of the cost of doing business just like in any other business. Ask any retailer about inventory "shrinkage".

So we as paying customers are ALREADY paying for piracy. Always have been. So to force customers to put up Rube Goldberg activation schemes is in the longer run more costly to software developers in LOST CUSTOMERS which far outweight the generally trivial cost of some piriated copies which everyone agrees HAPPENS REGARDLESS what the software developer does anyway.

nolonemo wrote on 5/5/2004, 3:32 PM

The prudent use would obtain a keygen for use in emergencies when the normal activation process cannot be used. I don't think there's one out for 5V yet, but I bet there will be in a week or two.

No flames, please, I am not advocating piracy or stealing software.

If you are going to market a program targeted at professionals and require activation of the program, it seems to me that the professional thing would be to have support for the activation 24/7.

farss wrote on 5/5/2004, 4:58 PM

Perhaps one very simple solution that'd solve two problems. A hard bound printed manual. Lets face it most software these days is useless without a manual. The .pdf would only come on the original CDs. It's certainly not going to stop the casual pirate and as we've agreed nothing will anyway. But at least if part of the purchase price is a physical entity that makes piracy not such a meaningfull exercise.
I know there used to be a huge number of pirated copies of Autocad floating around but anyone who was half serious about using it coughed up the dough for a legit copy because that was the only way to get the original documentation.
I've always maintained that the biggest cause of piracy for both software and music is the loss of pride of ownership, what we've paid for has no physical form and therefore seems valueless to us. If we feel something has no value it's hard to consider making a copy of it as theft.

CERTEGY wrote on 5/5/2004, 5:16 PM

As I stated in my previous message, I was under the impression that Sonic Foundry was going to create the "No Registration" required if the program was installed from the physical CD. Apparantly this never came about. Hey Sony! How about creating a program that will remove the registration process for Siren Jukebox 2.0c since you no longer make or support it? I would hate to not be able to use a program I paid the license to use....