Maybe this article can help :
http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/07/13/canon-hv20-24p-pulldown/

Also check on the forums at HV20.com, where Eugenia is a regular contributor.

Bob,

The "NTSC" HV20 differs from Canon's other offerings and does add pulldown. It does not flag the video and when you stop and start the camera, the cadence changes.

HV20 forums have a way to deal with this, but it is an elaborate process. I think Cineform products will do it during the conversion. I think DVFilm has a way to do it during conversion to Raylight as well.

Edited for clarity.

"HV20 forums have a way to deal with this, but it is an elaborate process. I think Cineform products will do it during the conversion."

Exactly right. I have the HV20 as a second camera to the V1U, and I ended up purchasing Cineform Neo in order to remove this pulldown. The process without purchasing Cineform is ridiculously involved. You can use the trial of Cineform which gives you the unlimited ability for several weeks to use the HV20 24p flow; there is a simple checkbox in the Preferences.

If you download HV20Pulldown from http://www.szudzik.net/vegas/scripts/HV20Pulldown.html, the process of doing pull-down with free tools becomes (almost) as easy as with NeoHDV, and if you use the lagarith encoder, your results should be better than with Cineform. The process is a little involved when you install (not terribly so) but after that it is easy.

There is also an automated tool for the second process described in the blog mentioned above.

Thanks for that.
I rarely get asked about handling tapes from Canon cameras these days but it's still good to have the irght answers or at least knowing where to point people to.

Bob.

Boy, it's nice there's a workaround, and I certainly didn't want to spend the money on Cineform if I didn't have to, but I'm always reluctant when sooo many steps/various software components are involved. If you're comfortable with these components, fine; but I'm the type that just wants to click install and move on with the project. Here's what I saw as an overview to set up for this HV20 workaround:

"1. Install AVI Synth Application
2. Install DGIndex Application
3. Install VirtualDubMod Application
4. TIVTC v1.01 plugin (Copy the DLL to your AVI Synth plugins folder)
5. MPASource Plugin (Copy the DLL to your AVI Synth plugins folder)
6. Install HV20Pulldown Application.
7. Create a "working directory" for the automated workflow.
8. From the location where you installed DGIndex, copy the DGDecode.DLL file to the AVI Synth plugins folder.
Otional Installation Components:
9. Install Lagarith Codec, Huffyuv Codec
10. Launch the HV20Pulldown.exe application
11. The application now needs to know where the other tools are located, as well as the working directory you created. Click the buttons next to each of the paths, which will open a file finder dialog. 12. Fill each of these in for: Working directory, DGIndex.exe application, VirtualDubMod.exe application and the AVS template file.
13. Using the checkbox, specify whether you want to have the application automatically fix the required audio delay (recommended).
14. Specify the compression template that you wish to use.
15. Click on the "Video Files" tab page. You can use the Add or Remove buttons to add video files (or remove them) that you wish to process.
16. When you are ready to start processing, use the "Processing -> Run" menu option. If this menu option is greyed out, check the status bar at the bottom of the page. The status bar will let you know what you are missing, or have incorrectly setup. Fix those issues and try running again. You can also use the F5 shortcut to run."

Vs:
Cineform:
1. Install
2. In Preferences, click checkbox to remove HV20 pulldown, folder to render files into, click couple other dropdown boxes
3. Start

I really like the Canon HV20, but since I use Vegas for an editing platform, I'm loathe to ge tthis unit and have to either (a) invest even more in Cineform or (b) jump through huge hoops just to have video I can edit.

I may end up going Sony for an HD camcorder option instead.

I just wonder why Canon couldn't have included some free utility to do what Cineform does ? Is it really that complex ?

I agree. Before I bought the HV20, I had written to Canon to ask if they could provide a way (flags or whatever) so NLE's could remove the HV20 pulldown, and they wrote back basically saying, "forget you... we aren't changing anything."

If you aren't planning on using the 24p process that the HV20 provides, I don't see the benefit of going to the HV20. If you're using the 24p workflow, it seems you may be stuck with this problem.

I really like the Canon HV20, but since I use Vegas for an editing platform, I'm loathe to ge tthis unit and have to either (a) invest even more in Cineform or (b) jump through huge hoops just to have video I can edit.

Eh, don't read this the wrong way. Vegas will import and edit Canon HV20 footage no problem. No hoops, no jumps. If you decide to shoot in 24p with the Canon, you have to hop through one or two hoops to edit that as 24p (you can edit it directly if you want to).

So, what happens if you go for a Sony. Story is exactly the same. Vegas doesn't do pull-down detection on any of these camcorders, so if you shoot 24p you have to get through the same hoops every time.

A good source of information on removing the HV20 24p pulldown:

http://www.hv20.com/forumdisplay.php?f=32

My personal experience is that the best 24p workflow option is Cineform Neo HDV, but that is also the most expensive. The next best option for HV20 24p workflow (and less than half the price) is TMPGEnc Xpress:

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=1417

But after paying for Vegas and an HV20, who wants to pay more just for 24p workflow? There are a bunch of free solutions that work just fine, but all have a number of intermediate steps.

The tutorial on the AVISynth approach to pulldown is about 10x more complicated than it needs to be. You can do pulldown removal in far fewer steps than what is shown there. If someone wants to capture about 90-120 frames of HV20 footage and post it somewhere, I'll see if I can come up with a single-download package that will let you do the pulldown, not just with HV20, but with any source that includes pulldown.

John

I really like the Canon HV20, but since I use Vegas for an editing platform, I'm loathe to ge tthis unit and have to either (a) invest even more in Cineform or (b) jump through huge hoops just to have video I can edit.

I have the HV20, the Sony HC3 and HC7. The HV20 shoots good quality video, that's for sure, but I like my Sony's MUCH better. Better build quality, more options, and better feel.... and the lcd viewer quality on the HV20 is just awful compared to the Sony's. In fact I tried to sell the HV20 at one point and I made the mistake of showing the buyer the HC3. He instantly noticed the rather dismal LCD image quality on the HV20 when comparing to the Sony.... I lost the sale.

It's hard to find an HV20 at this point and the replacement model, the HV30 has a better LCD display.

It's hard to find an HV20 at this point and the replacement model, the HV30 has a better LCD display.

I haven't seen both, but am considering both of them. How sure are you that the HV30 display is better?

Both Amazon and B&H have the HV20 in stock.

You can find HV20s selling in the low 600s from reputable dealers with a little research and luck, that's over $200 less for what seems to be essentially the same camera minus 30p (don't know about the LCD).

The zoom control on the HV30 is supposedly substantially improved ...