Sorry Cliff, I work exclusively with Vegas and never ever did I have an issue like yours.

To find a solution to your specific problem we would need more information. Project properties, render template, source material and so on inclusive of a snap shot of your timeline.

Timeline:

Project Properties:

Render template using Vegas2Handbrake (Latest version of HB) is 29.97, 1080p, 12,000kbps Mono audio rendering to h264 mp4.

Using the direct render as in Vegas Pro - used the Mainconcept option:

All footage shot on my Olympus EM5 recording dual sync audio and using PluralEyes 3.5 to replace scratch audio with clean audio before importing into Vegas Pro. Video files themselves are in sync outside of any NLE. The out of sync appears to be 2-5 frames difference from what I can tell.

Again, same project exported from VP13 and imported into PPro CS6 renders audio and video in sync perfectly using both AME and direct render from PPro CS6. Just when I was getting use to editing in Vegas Pro.

Pretty disillusioned...

Any thoughts?

@OldSmoke - I want to use Vegas exclusively - I really do! But I keep running into what are show stoppers for me. I'm not sure what else to do to give Vegas the nod as my only NLE.

Please show Project Properties Audio Tab and Render Properties Audio Tab.

Are all sources the same sample frequency?

Have you converted all audio to stereo at the same frequency and replaced the mono audio on the timeline?

What is the state of the Quantitize to Frame switch?

By any chance is your EM5 Olympus using a variable bit rate?

By any chance is your EM5 Olympus using a variable bit rate?

Not that I'm aware of. This is the first instance of this happening and I've been shooting these cameras and using dual sync audio since December 2015.

Use "mediainfo" to see if this particular footage is VBR .. I think Vegas can have problems rendering VBR and keeping it in sync. I think we've run into this mostly with those folks capturing game video (using VBR) and complaining that renders are out of sync.

Another possible is if you are not using an ASIO driver for your sound .. What that means I don't know .. but I found it as a reason for sync going bad on render.

I did find something that indicates the codec for the EM5 footage is VBR ... " .. The main problem with the H.264 codec in the OM-D is the ridiculously low average bitrate, the manual says 20Mbit/s but it sort of averages out at 17Mbit at best and sometimes considerably lower. It's a VBR codec (Variable Bit Rate) which means detail level in the video stream prior to encoding is the main trigger for bitrate distribution. "

http://cablefreak.blogspot.com/2012/12/optimizing-olympus-om-d-for-video-work.html

Still .. aggravating since Premier has no problem.

Please show Project Properties Audio Tab and Render Properties Audio Tab.

Are all sources the same sample frequency?

Have you converted all audio to stereo at the same frequency and replaced the mono audio on the timeline?

What is the state of the Quantitize to Frame switch?

Project Audio Properties:

Project Audio Render Properties:

Quantitize to Frame is ticked on.

VBR should not be an issue, VFR could well be.

All footage shot on my Olympus EM5 recording dual sync audio

Cliff, can you explain what you mean with dual sync audio? Are you recording with the Olympus LS-100 too?

Use "mediainfo" to see if this particular footage is VBR .. I think Vegas can have problems rendering VBR and keeping it in sync. I think we've run into this mostly with those folks capturing game video (using VBR) and complaining that renders are out of sync.

Another possible is if you are not using an ASIO driver for your sound .. What that means I don't know .. but I found it as a reason for sync going bad on render.

I did find something that indicates the codec for the EM5 footage is VBR ... " .. The main problem with the H.264 codec in the OM-D is the ridiculously low average bitrate, the manual says 20Mbit/s but it sort of averages out at 17Mbit at best and sometimes considerably lower. It's a VBR codec (Variable Bit Rate) which means detail level in the video stream prior to encoding is the main trigger for bitrate distribution. "

http://cablefreak.blogspot.com/2012/12/optimizing-olympus-om-d-for-video-work.html

Still .. aggravating since Premier has no problem.

 

That's my point exactly about Premiere - it rendered out the footage perfectly and no sync issues...I'm a little irritated that Vegas seems to let me down at the worst times. Vegas is a great NLE - when it works right. And other projects I've edited previously the past month or so haven't have the audio drift issue - same workflow as listed initially. I'm willing to give Vegas another try but I'm now having consider it not reliable for all projects and TBH, will feel the need to defer back to Premiere Pro CS6 - even though it's not near as fluid an editing experience as Vegas Pro. I'm hoping I'm wrong and this was just the odd project that just didn't go quite right (Had issues rendering with Vegas2Handbrake with this project as well)

If Premier Pro CS6 is so perfect, why did you come back to Vegas?

All footage shot on my Olympus EM5 recording dual sync audio

Cliff, can you explain what you mean with dual sync audio? Are you recording with the Olympus LS-100 too?

I'm recording to a Tascam DR40 audio recorder being fed interview material via a Rode NTG2 hardwired to the recorder. I record my master audio at 96khz 24 bit - then bring into my audio editing app to do noise reduction and tweak the audio before rendering out those clips at 48khz 16 bit WAV files to bring into PluralEyes along with my video clips. PluralEyes replaces the scratch audio from the camera with the clean audio from the recorder. I export those clips out and then bring the working clips into Vegas or Premiere Pro.

If Premier Pro CS6 is so perfect, why did you come back to Vegas?

I wouldn't say Premiere is perfect by any means - but it has been reliable for the most part. I'm not willing to invest into Adobe's software rental scheme so I've stayed with my aging PPro CS6 when in reality, I want to transition completely to Vegas Pro. I prefer the editing paradigm of Vegas since I can also work with audio on the timeline more efficiently than in Adobe's NLE. And Vegas Pro as an NLE for audio slideshows surpasses any other NLE on the market IMO. I'm going to test a few more projects just to see if it's this particular project or if this is a larger issue.

Rendering to Mainconcept there appears to be less audio drift compared to using the Vegas2Handbrake script.

I would try …

… disabling GPU rendering for MainConcept AVC output.

… remuxing the resultung MP4 after render.

I would try …

… disabling GPU rendering for MainConcept AVC output.

… remuxing the resultung MP4 after render.

@Marco. - Here's the thing, Why should I have to do extra steps to fix what appears to be a glaring issue within Vegas Pro - at that point, Vegas loses any speed and efficiency in editing because of having to go outside the app to fix what it does during Rendering. I have the same audio drift issue when rendering via Vegas2Handbrake - Premiere Pro becomes more advantageous due to just rendering out and not exhibiting any audio drift.

I even went so far as to duplicate the Vegas Project, convert the clips to Cineform and replace the clips in the project - yet, the audio drift still exists - but doesn't in Premiere Pro... Also converted to MXF - same results, yet PPro renders out perfectly every time. I wish it were different, but now I'm back to using Premiere Pro as this is a deal breaker - I don't have time, nor should I be forced, to sit in post fixing a glaring issue that is present in Vegas Pro. Both 13 and 14 exhibit the same results for me.

To say I'm disappointed is an understatement. I had high hopes for Vegas - I REALLY wanted to make the switch. I'm beginning to doubt I will be able to use it as my primary NLE unless version 15 is a major overhaul

glaring issue that is present in Vegas Pro

If it would be a glaring issue many other users would report it. There is something in your workflow, source material or hardware that is causing it.

glaring issue that is present in Vegas Pro

If it would be a glaring issue many other users would report it. There is something in your workflow, source material or hardware that is causing it.

Could be... bottom line is I'm forced back to Premiere Pro out of necessity now... Maybe VP15 will be different, but until it's released, I'm back where I was 3 months ago... A shame really... The fact that Premiere Pro can render a perfectly sync'd video from the same project that drifts in Vegas seems to indicate an issue with Vegas, not my clips - especially since my raw clips do not exhibit audio drift at all. I also rendered in Resolve and I get the same results as Premiere Pro - no audio drift. For all I know - it's an nVidia issue - given the ongoing threads about how well AMD GPU's are preferred for Vegas. Since my laptop is nVidia as well as my desktop, that's not an option to swap out GPU's.

>>And other projects I've edited previously the past month or so haven't have the audio drift issue - same workflow as listed initially.

Something changed that Vegas does not like but that Premiere can handle. Personally, I use a similar workflow with "double system" sound and I doubt I could make this problem occur if I wanted to. I don't think it's a common problem. I'm not excusing Vegas. Obviously Premiere is more robust in this case -- but I do think there is a reason that is specific.

I am curious, first you said it was out of sync, and then you said it drifted out of sync. How much was the drift over what period of time?

Looking at the Vegas build number I assume you are using a Magix version of Vegas and not Sony's last version. Have you tried downloading VP14 trial and open the same project with it?

Since it worked before, was there a driver update since?

"Why should I have to do extra steps to fix what appears to be a glaring issue within Vegas Pro"

Because this could help sorting out what the cause of the problem is.

Disabling GPU for rendering is just one mouse-click and I wouldn't recommend to use GPU render boost at all (except for draft output).

Also remuxing is very fast (it's almost just a copy process) and using Vegasaur it even could be done without leaving Vegas Pro.

Btw - In the last year (using Vegas Pro 14) I edited a long form documentary, many hours of footage coming from different type of cameras. I needed to render various versions of the final product to CineForm AVI, XDCAM EX, XDCAM HD und three variations of H.264 MP4. I never had a synch issue and during the one year of editing I only had one crash while I was doing a continuous back-and-forth switching inside a 3rd party audio plug-in.
So while I see this is a serious problem for you which urgently needs to be fixed, I think it's not a common one (or maybe not even a known one, except of a known synch issue when using ProRes, but this is about 20 bis 30 ms, not several frames). It seems like it is hard to repro for us so any additional infos about what helps (or not) could be useful, just like testing a remux.

Or could you share a video rendered out of Vegas Pro showing this issue, so we could investigate on our own?