Rendering 30i to 60p resulting in 30p?

SteveK51 wrote on 2/21/2013, 10:28 AM
Hi,

I'm attempting to render video from an NTSC DVD to sony AVC MP4 at 60 fps. I've done my usual settings for an interlaced source (disable resample, interpolate fields), and I say usual because normally I'm outputting 30i video from Vegas.

I confirmed with AVS Video Converter that I am producing 60 fps material. Making a comparison between the 30i video in VLC with Yadif 2 deinterlace on and my 60p video, frame-to-frame the picture quality is good and I've avoided interlace flicker.

The problem is the picture has become jumpy; Vegas is using one image from a given frame to generate two frames in the ouput instead of deinterlacing a frame to produce two unique frames.

I've read for over an hour on this forum looking for an answer and reviewed several youtube videos without finding a solution. Any ideas on what I'm missing here? Thanks.

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 2/21/2013, 10:31 AM
You need a "bob" filter. Available for VirtualDub, Avisynth, and now Handbrake I believe. I'm not sure one is available for Vegas, but search for solutions.
Andy_L wrote on 2/21/2013, 10:48 AM
It's possible you don't actually have a 60i source. A lot of cameras these days shoot 30P and wrap it as 60i.
SteveK51 wrote on 2/21/2013, 10:57 AM
I'm pretty good with Handbrake so I'll give that a try.

This is VHS>DVD video of Indycar racing. When the camera pans to track a car going 300 feet per second, the difference between 5 feet per frame and 10 is pretty clear. But anyway, I'm pretty certain that my source is 30 frames per second interlaced.
musicvid10 wrote on 2/21/2013, 11:02 AM
You'll need a recent nightly of Handbrake to get "bob." There is some discussion on their forum.

Let us know how it works out!
Andy_L wrote on 2/22/2013, 11:21 AM
That's odd. If you've got a true 60i source, Vegas shouldn't have any trouble creating a true (interpolated) 60p output. I used to do that a lot when I was working with 60i and needed to stabilize it with the early Mercalli versions (which didn't like interlaced footage).
SteveK51 wrote on 3/16/2013, 9:46 PM
A little late in coming back to this, but here we go.

Handbrake with the bob deinterlace does generate a 60 fps picture of good quality. It takes about 10 secs to process a frame, so it is a bit of a time drain.

The best solution I've found so far in Vegas comes from this video, substituting 29.97 for 25, etc.:




first select deinterlacing method - interpolation;

then make sure the smart resampling is enabled in your video properties. it's important;

after that set the playback rate of this video-clip to 0,5 (twice slower)

on that stage each field will be interpolated to the full frame size, and will have its own time interval

Now render your video as 25p LOSSLESS.


After you've rendered the 25p video which is TWICE SLOWER, set your project to 50p;

import your rendered file (which is twice slower, remember!), remove your original video-clip (which was interlaced), you can leave the audio-track;

set the playing playback in the clip's properties to 2;

render your new video as 50p!! if you're gonna use in in future editing I prefer rendering to lossless format.
PeterDuke wrote on 3/17/2013, 7:16 AM
When I want to look at the individual fields of interlaced video, I just look at it in a double rate progressive project. For 50i source, I set the project properties to progressive, double frame rate (50), and deinterlace method of interpolate fields. I then put the 50i video on the timeline and view with preview quality set to Best(Full). Resample, on the video properties, must not be disabled. If I render it, I get a 50p video where each frame corresponds to one field in the source..

Note that there is disagreement in the video world how to describe 25 frames per second interlaced (i.e. 50 fields per second). Some purists call it 25i but most people now seem to call it 50i. I presume when the OP says 30i he means what I would have called 60i. He wants to convert 30 fps interlaced to 60 fps progressive.
SteveK51 wrote on 3/18/2013, 12:45 PM
PeterDuke, you may have hit on it right there. The first thing I do for outputting an interpolated video is disable resampling; it's absolutely necessary when the image is stretched. It never occurred to me that this might be the wrong setting to carry over for a progressive output. I'll try this later.

Right now with resampling disabled, I've tried setting the project to 60 fps and increment frame by frame. It's immediately apparent that the image only changes with every other frame.

And actually, Handbrake is quite quickly when it is only deinterlacing. It runs much more slowly with decombing also enabled (which makes perfect sense).

I guess I tend towards the purist view in interpreting 30i/60i. If I saw 60i my initial thought is 120 fps as displayed, then realize this is probably not correct. Similarly, when I see 30i I would not assume 30 fps as displayed from 15 fps interlaced.
musicvid10 wrote on 3/18/2013, 12:55 PM
I don't know of any good way in Vegas to emulate a bob filter, which can create true 60p from 60i (29.97). It can be done in VDub, AviSynth, And now Handbrake.
SteveK51 wrote on 3/19/2013, 12:13 AM
Switching to Smart Resample did not do the trick; I'm still only seeing every other frame in stepping through the video in Vegas.
PeterDuke wrote on 3/19/2013, 8:39 AM
Are your project properties set to double frame rate, progressive?

Do you have your preview set to best(full)?

What do you see as you step through one frame at a time?
Jerry K wrote on 3/19/2013, 9:21 AM
My Sony camcorder can only record 60i or 30p. I'm curious to know those of you that are delivering their finished edit on blu ray or DVD for playback on a HDTV what's the preferred shooting mode 60i or 30p?