Rendering problems

Flyboy40 wrote on 4/2/2009, 6:49 AM
I am trying to (successfully) render my first video, and I am not having any luck. Circumstances lead to me videotaping the funeral of a local 26 year old man, and I am trying to somehow get the 2+ hour service onto a DVD for the family. As I mentioned, I am new to this, and as such, maybe I just need to be pointed in the directions of a good tutorial. (Although I have exhausted all efforts at finding help on-line, especially you-tube.)

What I want to end up with is a wide-screen video in standard def, and I don't care about keeping the audio in 5.1 surround. I am using a Sony HDR-SR12, so it's AVCHD and 5.1 surround sound. My first render attempt was using MainConcept MPEG-2 for the type and DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream for the template (is that the correct template?). That resulted in a file that wouldn't play at all in Windows Media Player. It would play in my VLC media player, but there was no audio. The size was 5.7 Gig, so I think it would fit on a dual layer DVD if only the audio worked. (And I'm guessing there would be some way to reduce the size? Maybe somehow change the audio from 5.1 to stereo?)

That first render took about 3 hours to render, so I made a video of just the first 2 minutes to use for following attempts. Next I tried AVI with NTSC DV Widescreen. The resulting file worked - video and audio. However, this 2 minute video was 28 Gig! How is that even possible?

I tried the MPEG-2 again on my 2 minute video, since my research said that is what would be recommended for a DVD. Same result. No audio.

Next I tried .WMV. This seemed to work okay, but I've read that is what you might use for making a video for you tube, so the quality would not be very good for a DVD.

Next, MPEG-1. This video was actually very bad, with white pixilated areas showing up.

So now, I'm thinking maybe I can somehow render this using stereo sound instead of surround sound. In Vegas, I went to project properties, and on the audio tab, changed the master bus mode to stereo (not sure if that actually changed anything or not). I then rendered using MGEP-2. It resulted in no audo, just like before, and the file size was exactly the same size.

So now I'm stuck. In my searching to figure this out, I read some posts about having to render the video and audio separately. Is that really necessary? The video tutorials I watched on You-Tube did not mention this at all.

I am so sorry for such a long post, but I am at my wit's end. I would really like to get this video rendered and put on a DVD for the family. Any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED! And remember, nobody will offend my by stating something basic or simple. I am very new to this, and do not know much.

Comments

Andy E wrote on 4/2/2009, 7:18 AM
An MPEG-2 template is what you need. It's more compressed than AVI which is why the big difference in size.

Which template you use depends on what you're using to create the DVD. The DVD Architect templates in Vegas are video only - no audio. You render that out separately for DVD Architect. That's why there was no sound in VLC.

You may not have the required DirectShow filters installed for MPEG2, so no playback in WMP.

Leave anything but MPEG-2 out of the equation. Assuming DVD Architect then your video was probably good-to-go. For the audio choose a Dolby Digital template and render that out.
Markk655 wrote on 4/2/2009, 6:44 PM
For ease of use, click the Project>Make Movie button. Then select Burn to DVD. Select DVD on the next screen. On thenext screen make sure widescreen is checked. You should get a .mpg file and a .ac3 file (for a 5.1 project). Click next to start rendering. Bring those files into DVD Architect.
Flyboy40 wrote on 4/3/2009, 5:46 AM
Thank you so much for the quick and helpful reply. I made much progress on my project last night thanks to you.

In order to make sure I understand correctly, and to help anyone else having the same problem, let me state how I understand this to work. Some of the templates will render video and audio at the same time, and others will only render video or audio. If you are going to use Sony DVD Architect to burn your project to DVD (or just add some menus, etc, and keep on your computer), you must use one of the DVD Architect templates, or else it will not work in Architect. And the Architect templates only do video, so you must render audio separately (and you should use a Dolby Digital template).

I do have one further question. The project is too large to fit on a DVD. Is there someway to decrease the size. Obviously, most movies are 2 hours, and they fit on DVDs, often along with extras. I was looking around in DVD Architect, and found if I go to Optimize DVD, select Yes for Recompress, and then adjust the video bitrate, it will decrease the size. Will that affect the quality of the video? Is there a better way to do it?

Thanks so much for any help!
OhMyGosh wrote on 4/3/2009, 9:07 AM
Hi Flyboy,
In answer to the last question, when you go to 'Optimize DVD', if you click on the 'Fit to Disc' button on the bottom left of the screen, I think you will find that DVDA will handle the rest for you. Good luck. Cin
Ivan Lietaert wrote on 4/3/2009, 9:13 AM
Commercial dvds have two layers so they can carry about 2 hours. Your dvd only has one layer, so putting 2 hours on one dvd is stretching it. It can be done by bringing the bitrate down.
Here is my suggestion:
1) in Vegas, render your project to DV AVI
2) in DVDA, in the prepare procedure, hit the 'optimize' button and select 'fit to disc'. Dvda will optimize the bitrate in order to fit your project on one dvd. You could give it a go with a rewritable dvd first, because, as I said, 2 hours on one dvd is stretching it.

Flyboy40 wrote on 4/3/2009, 10:50 AM
Thanks for the responses - very helpful. Ivan123, I do have a followup question: I have already rendered in MPEG-2. Since I will be recompressing the video, do you recommend starting out with an AVI file because the resulting DVD will be better than if I use the MPEG-2? I experimented with rendering 2 minutes of the video to AVI earlier, and it was 28 gig. I have no idea how large the full 2 hour AVI would be, but it would take a lot of compressing to fit on a disk. Just wanting to understand why you recommend rendering to AVI.

Thanks so much for your help!
Ivan Lietaert wrote on 4/3/2009, 11:07 AM
I suggested PAL DV because you will not lose quality. But those files can be huge, indeed.
The thing is, if you first tell Vegas to render to mpeg2, the bitrate will be fixed (VMS does not allow to custom mpeg setting). So when you move on to DVDA, in fit to disc mode, your movie will be rerendered once more, with information loss.

If you are bothered by the huge files, instead render to the 720p HD template (wmv), which will be better quality than mpeg2 (and the file will be smaller). Then move on to the 'fit to disc' procedure in DVDA. As DVDA will render your file from wmv to mpeg2, it will take a bit longer, but it should work.
Flyboy40 wrote on 4/3/2009, 12:44 PM
I'm not bothered by the huge files, I was just concerned that if the original was huge, it would be difficult to eventually fit to a DVD.

I am fine with rendering to DV AVI. Are you saying that when I do render to AVI, I should change some settings in the custom settings? If so, what? Also, you said that with MPEG-2,"when you move on to DVDA, in fit to disk mode, your movie will be rerendered once more, with information loss". When I do the fit to disk with the AVI file, won't that as well have information loss?

Sorry if seem dense on this stuff. I really appreciate your help.
Andy E wrote on 4/3/2009, 1:13 PM
2 minutes of the video to AVI earlier, and it was 28 gig.

Didn't notice that in your original post. Sounds to me like you rendered out to uncompressed AVI. If you render to DV-AVI it won't be as bad - allow approx 13Gb per hour.

Ivan Lietaert wrote on 4/3/2009, 2:54 PM
Yes, there will be information loss evantually, but it is better to have it happen in the final rendering by DVDA.
Anyhow, just give it a try, and see if your dvd is of satisfactory quality..Make sure to try it out on a stand alone dvd player also. Another hint: Keep the dvd theme simple and small. (moving backgrounds and intros with music etc will also eat memory, so don't use that).