Rendering project containing different formats

Potsy wrote on 10/17/2013, 8:06 AM
Hello,

I have just started using Movie Studio Platinum 12 to edit MOV files from my iphone and MTS files from a Panasonic camera. I’ve matched the project settings to the MOV files and the editor handles the two different formats in one project fine (although it’s a fairly small project with about 100 clips). But I’m having trouble rendering.

I have tried rendering to each of the settings which Movie Studio lists as matching the project. These are:
• MPEG2 blu-ray 1920x1080-50i, 25 Mbps video stream
• Sony AVC/MVC (m2ts) AVCHD 1920x1080-50i
• Video for Windows (avi) HD 1080-50i YUV

But each of them gives a very poor result – jerky vision, out of sync audio, no audio, distorted vision. And I tried some others, like rendering to quicktime 3 Mbps, but no luck. So I think I have three questions:

1. I would like to work without converting files because it takes time, there’s quality loss and it would mean I have two copies of everything, using up disc space. Is it possible to work with and render different formats in the same project or am I dreaming?

2. If it can’t be done with Movie Studio does anyone know of software that can do it? I’m happy to spend money of it saves me time over the next decade of editing family videos.

3. If conversion is the best option, what is a good format that involves minimum quality loss?

Thanks heaps!
Potsy

PS I don’t know if the file details help, but here they are just in case:

MTS files
Name: 00131.MTS
Type: MPEG-2 Transport Stream
Size: 33.97 MB (34,781,184 bytes)
Streams
Video: 00:00:16.840, 25.000 fps interlaced, 1920x1080x12, AVC
Audio: 00:00:16.840, 48,000 Hz, Stereo, Dolby AC-3

MOV files
Name: IMG_0585.MOV
Type: QuickTime
Size: 42.70 MB (43,728,113 bytes)
Streams
Video: 00:00:16.827, 24.010 fps, 1920x1080x24, H.264
Audio: 00:00:16.834, 44,100 Hz, 32 Bit (IEEE Float), Mono, AA

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 10/17/2013, 10:38 AM
You haven't listed your computer specs or the player used (please do so), but none of those three output formats are designed for PC delivery, and may be overtaxing your system. Two are hardware transport streams, and the last is uncompressed.

For starters, I suggest Mainconcept MP4 at 6-8 Mbps, 720p. If that works on VLC player, you can work your way up. The first part of our tutorial shows you the ropes.
Oh, never use Quicktime player.

Chienworks wrote on 10/17/2013, 1:52 PM
I'll point out that the *only* reason to match project properties to the source media is to get smoother preview playback. In fact, i never bother with this, ever. I always set my project properties to match the desired output format (though often this is the same as the source format, but that's merely coincidental). I prefer to see my project previews as they are going to appear in the output, since it's the output that matters.

Of course, the other reason why matching properties to source is often not the greatest idea is in your particular case where you have more than one type of source media. You end up wondering which one to match to, and the answer is: either, or neither. It doesn't really matter. Vegas is perfectly good at using whatever sources you throw at it and figuring out how to remap them to the desired output.

Musicvid's comments are probably right on, in that it's more likely that your computer can't handle smoothly playing back your sample output file formats. Try rendering to something a lot easier to play, like perhaps one of the MP4 iPad formats. If that plays back smoothly then Vegas is doing the job right. The formats you've been using probably require either a heftier computer or a dedicated player of some sort.
Potsy wrote on 10/19/2013, 11:22 PM
Thank you both!

My specs are:
CPU: i5-3570 @ 3.40GHz
Ram: 16GB
MOBO: Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H
GPU: ATI 5750
HDD: Samsung 160GB SSD and Hitachi 1TB 7200rpm drive
OS: win7 Home Premium 64 bit
The player I use most is Windows Media, but I have VLC, KMP and Quicktime installed.

musicvid10, I tried an MP4 with great success. The preset in MainConcept AVC/AC is "Internet HD 720p". Plays fine on all my players. Very exciting!

I also went through your tutorial. I installed the codecs and Handbrake and followed the process. My render to an 3MP Mov file created a mov file that is over 8GB which will only play on quicktime. Handbrake converted that to a 600MB mp4 which has good video but the audio sounds like it's underwater! With a bit more experience I think I could work it out, but for the moment just rendering to a 720p MP4 is fine for me.

Chienworks, thanks for the advice, that makes sense. I had incorrectly assumed that matching the project settings would mean the render would be better because it doesn't need to convert things. I think there are some basics that I don't quite have yet. I'm after a format for playback on my PC and with my projector, so a bit better quality than for a tablet. But other than randomly picking bigger frame sizes and bitrates on the assumption that quality will be better, I have no method!

Do you know where is a good place to read up on the basics?

Again, thank you both for taking the time to post.

Potsy




Chienworks wrote on 10/20/2013, 8:15 AM
Vegas always converts when it has to, but only *when* it has to. What does that mean? Well, let's take an extreme case. Let's assume that your source is format "A", while your project is set for format "B", and you render to format "C". While you are editing and previewing your project, Vegas on-the-fly converts your source "A" into format "B" for the preview windows. However, when you render, Vegas ignores "B" and converts the source "A" directly into "C" for the output. In fact, for the most part, project settings are nearly completely ignored when you render.

I just don't like surprises on rendered output even more than i don't like slow preview frame rates. I set the project properties to match the desired output so i *know* what the output is going to look like while i'm editing. When i do need to see something in real-time at full frame rate in the preview window, i select a small section around that part and do a Shift-B RAM pre-render. This small section will then play back exactly like the final output will be, at full frame rate, no matter how tortuously complex the source and edit may be.
musicvid10 wrote on 10/20/2013, 9:48 AM
"but the audio sounds like it's underwater!"
Depending on the Handbrake version, the default audio is pretty awful. I'm using fdk-aac from the dropdown and really like it.

"The preset in MainConcept AVC/AC is "Internet HD 720p". Plays fine on all my players. Very exciting! "
That's a very good preset in later Vegas versions, and if you like it that's what you should be sticking with (fewer steps). Combine that with the video leveling steps later in the tutorial, and you should be getting some "wow" results.

WRT Kelly's advice, I have a slow laptop, so I tend to run my projects with media matched for best preview experience. If I have generated media or display-sensitve media placement, I'll set up the project first using output dimensions, then revert back to media-matched settings for most previewing (the initial project settings "stick" to the generated media, etc. for render).
Potsy wrote on 10/21/2013, 2:39 AM
Brilliant, thank you both. I think I am heading down the right path. What you say makes sense and I'll be able to work out what works with my system. My next problem is movie studio crashes if I import more than 48 clips... but that should be the subject of a fresh post I think!
Warper wrote on 10/22/2013, 2:33 AM
With all due respect, I can't agree to your statement about project settings. Your picture is promptly converted in pan/crop into whatever resolution you set. When it reaches timeline, your original fields/fps/resolution are gone for good.
The only thing that uses your original file is smart rendering and it only works in no-filters envirnoment.