Renders cause quality loss?

Randy Brown wrote on 2/20/2004, 3:02 PM
Howdy,
I did a "render as" NTSC .avi and the focus is softer compared to the clips in the .veg. Then I used the default, "uncompressed" and it doesn't seem any better. Can you think of anything that I may be doing wrong?
TIA,
Randy

Comments

eejackson wrote on 2/20/2004, 5:00 PM
Hi Randy:
I hope you don't mind me jumping on this bandwagon, but I rendered some clips exactly the same way as you explained and I too had the softer focus issue.. I would appreciate any suggestions as to why this happens.
Lori J.
Randy Brown wrote on 2/21/2004, 7:27 AM
Hey Lori,
I hope it's just a setting we're overlooking, I don't remember this ever happening before.
Randy
craftech wrote on 2/22/2004, 4:19 AM
I have found that "reduce interlace flicker" causes this so I never use it.

John
Randy Brown wrote on 2/22/2004, 6:59 AM
Thanks John, I don't have "reduce interlace flicker" turned on with any of these clips but later I realized that I had stretched them about 40-50% (slo-mo) and I have smart resample on (since I get the jerky movement if I set it to "disable resample"). Anyway, I've searched the site and read all of the threads on slo-mo (supersampling and all of the settings) but I just can't get the clips to look as good as they did before I stretched them. I guess I'll just live with it.
Thanks again John,
Randy
Jay Gladwell wrote on 2/23/2004, 9:03 AM
Randy, I didn't reply earlier because I've never had this experience. Therefore, my reply is of little or no value to you. My renders and DVDs look as good and sharp as the original footage.

While editing and rendering, I view my material on a 13" Sony studio monitor (NTSC). When complete, I view the finished piece on a 36" Sony Wega television. Thus far, I've never seen any appreciable degradation of the original video image to its final distribution format.

Wish I could of more help.

J--
johnmeyer wrote on 2/23/2004, 12:30 PM
Randy,

Your original post had me puzzled, but now, if I understand correctly, you are getting softer results when rendering slow motion. If this is the case, then the answer is, that is how things work. Vegas must synthesize the new, intermediate frames required when you slow down the action. If you disable resample, as you already found, you get really crisp, sharp results, but the motion is jerky. The reason is that when resample is turned off, Vegas just repeats original frames, as necessary, to give you the slowness you desire. With resample turned on, the new frames are created by blending adjacent frames, much like what happens during a crossfade transition. Since the result is a composotie of two frames, the result is not going to be as sharp.

There is no single answer that will give you great looking slow motion for all video. However, I did extensive work on this six months ago while doing slo-mo for some volleyball clips. Click here to see what I found out:

Slow Motion Settings
Liam_Vegas wrote on 2/23/2004, 12:59 PM
I too was puzzled (worried even) when first reading the post. The eventaul disclosure that "slow-motion" FX that was being applied has made me breath a sigh of relief. My first impression was that a straight render (no effects) was causing this problem.

Please... try to include ALL the relevant facts. I think the fact that slow-motion was being applied can be classified as pretty relevant.
Randy Brown wrote on 2/23/2004, 2:44 PM
>>Please... try to include ALL the relevant facts.<<
You're absolutely right and I apologize but somehow I overlooked that (the only) very important factor.

John, that particular thread is one of the ones I was referring to when I mentioned searching the site...I could be doing something wrong, but as far as I could tell, I just couldn't tell the difference applying those suggestions.
Thanks anyway everyone,
Randy
eejackson wrote on 2/23/2004, 3:40 PM
Hi All:

I responded to Randy's post beacause I too was experiencing the same problem, before I realized that there was slo-mo added to the clips. However , I'm not adding in any effects but I still am encountering this issue.
For example: I have a few clips on the time line, with no effects, no color correction, nothing added to the original clips....If I render to avi the clips are a little softer in focus and jut a tinge blurry then when I render to Mpeg2. Same goes for stills on the timeline. I put five still images on the time line with no transitions between them and still no extra effects. When rendered to AVI the stills are blurry and just slightly out of focus. When rendered to Mpeg2 they are as sharp as the originals. So, I'm still trying to figure out why this is happening. Any suggestions would be very helpful.
Thanks
Lori J.
johnmeyer wrote on 2/23/2004, 4:17 PM
Make sure, when you render to AVI that, in the "Render As" dialog, you select "Save as type: Video for Windows (*.avi), and that for "Template" you select "NTSC DV" (or "PAL DV" if you're in Europe).

Also, select Options -> Preferences and on the General tab, make sure that "Ignore third party codecs" is checked.