Not certain that I entirely understand your concept

OK, using my concept of a Nested veg FROM the project being worked on to improve Preview Rates. Instead of bringing IN an external Veg to nest, create one from a "tricky" SECTION of the already open one. I gave the example of 3-D section.

All the rest that you do, I also do. Essentially all I'm speaking to is improving Preview rates. Now, having GOT these Same-Project Proxy Nests, would it improve render times? But primarily I'm after improved Preview rates on tricky sections, and I was thinking that having those neat little Proxy files could/might just be used to augment my Preview experience. After all Vegas CAN create nested proxies - why not do a side step and use them for Same-Project Previews?

As I say, Vic, the reduction in rendering times would be a bonus.

Getting to the Narrative, and seeing it develop slickly is what I've always been after: "Stories are like speeding Arrows - if you don't catch them in flight, they are lost, forever"

i work in a similar manner...

i work longform mostly

i create markers for each "segment"

when its done, i render out as DV AVI in a "prerenders" folder on a totally seperate drive from the main media drive.
I then reimport those reprendering into the project
If i need to mess around with certain elements after that chuck is rendered, i usually jsut split th clip at the point where i want to make changes and reshuffle the underlying video to where it needs to be.
As its frame accurate, the only parts to be rendered out to the master (from that point on) are the recent changes (which is usually afew seconds) and doesnt affect any of the quality of the finished piece anyway.. so teh only changes that need to be done are done while the majority remains "prerendered" So mastering is blinding fast

Now, hearing ur idea, i thought about it, but in the end, a prxy like byproduct from a section of the master Veg would still need to rendered (if ur working proxies for preview purposes)
Another option woudl be to create ur composition as a seperate veg and work in the native method of embedded T'L's Ala Avid media bins for composites sequenced... but this again takes up alot of grunt and i dont think its doing what you want it to do

IMO, rendering THAT element and replaceing it (like Edius' "render and replace" function) would work. I dont see why proxies would be needed, as u can always render a draft quality verison of that composition in next to zero time, and place it above the actual "live" composition. This way, if it needs previewing the low res draft is there, but if it needs ttweaking, u can also do that without the need for proxy

Then when its time to render, i can either rerender THAT part again in high quality and replace it on the timeline using the project media, right click replace, or just delete it from the timeline altogether and let the whole project render

Yup, I got the rendering thing.

Yup, got the "render" draft thing too.

My idea for producing same-project proxies is still holding its own.

Don't really see how it's going to make things go any faster.
If you nest a project (which I've never used more than once) it's still got to be rendered. If you prerender somehow it doesn't need rendering again unless you want to change it.

Yoy could nest a project and maybe somehow Vegas could work out that it's already rendered out as a file somewhere and use that prerendered file instead of rendering the the nested project. Technically that could be made to work I guess.
Question that I don't have the answer to is how that helps the creative flow.

Now IF you've got a machine with plenty of cores / threads then perhaps you could somehow use the equivalent of background rendering. You work in project A and kick it off rendering.
You bring that into project B as a nested project. While project A is rendering away no speedup, if anything maybe a lsight slowdown, but when project A is finished that nested Veggie runs off the render file much faster.

I guess while most of us are sitting there thinking a lot of CPU cycles go to waste which could be put to better use.

Bob.

Not Render >>> Preview . . render might be a bonus.

LOL!!

One or more of us is missing something here.
If you want to preview something (like 3D) at full fps it needs to be rendered. If it's more than a few seconds long it needs to be written to a file.
So Preview == Render.

Maybe I've FINALLY GOT IT?

You want to do the REVERSE!

You create project A and nest it in Project B.
Render out Project B.
Go back to Project A. Now everything that's in project A is within what was rendered out in Project B. You want to retain a linkage to Project B so you can get RT playback of Project A.

Only issue I can see is that Project A could be nested into multiple projects and they could be rendered out to anything but apart from that theoretically it could be made to work.

Bob.

Bob! You are an Angel!

Nearly there . .nearly . .

I want to USE a section of Project A - .. you'll need to lie down at this point . .. think calm, cool thoughts .. .waves gently lapping onto an Oz beach .. no children about? .. . and you've got a cold one in your hand .. . . .. here we go . .. 1 - 2 - 3

. .WITHIN Project A!! - taraaah! BOSH!


I thank you very much!

I think Bob's rushed off to the sanatorium . . "See you inside, I'm at reception, over by the flower pot!"

It's your use of the word "Nested" that threw me. If you're using something from project A in project A then it isn't nested, nesting means it's external to the project.

So isn't what you're asking for the same as selectively prerendering a looped region, when you do that Vegas creates a 'proxy', stores it on the HDD etc. The only problem seems to be that it's very easy for Vegas to decide the prerendered file is no longer current and it stops using it.

Bob.

PS, want to email me your phone number, I coudl ring you.

Yup, and that IS the problem with pre-rendered files. Yah moves stuff about, and zap! They've gone!

Well you say I'm using the word "Nested" incorrectly. I didn't know of another way of getting across what I meant.

See, it pays off .. in the end! Lol!!

.. Bob, SKYPE is far far far cheaper / . . like ZERO . .

Anyways, email coming your way . .

The lack of stickiness of prerenders has been complained about for as long as I've been around although I haven't seen much about them in the last year or so, maybe everyones abandoned all hope of them ever being fixed.

The other alternative is to just render the looped region to a new file and drop that onto an upper track or replace that section of the T/L with it. Not as elegant as a prerender though and you'd still have some limitations on how well it'd work.

. . eh? sent email nearly 60 mins ago.

Just got yours . . .yes, weird . .I will send from alternate . ..

G

OK,
nothing like a 1 on 1 chat to clear things up.

1) When you add a nested veg into a project Vegas creates very quickly a 'preview' or 'proxy' file so you can see what you're getting.

2) Unlike Selectively Prerender these proxies are very sticky, don't create a full blown avi and are generally much quicker and smoother to work with.

So why not be able to create the same form of proxy with the same smooth operation by rendering a looped region and make them just as sticky.

Sounds good to me.

Well hopefully I got this right, if not I'm certain Grazie will chime in.

Bob.

Well, I tried.

I Created a ProjB - part of ProjA - and implanted it back INTO a a space provided in ProjA . .and yah know what? Frame rate is WORSE this way round - sh££t!

In fact allowing ProjA go through a few "play" looped cycles is actually bringing it UP to framerate - my nested ProjB is about 15% off the optimum.

But yes Bob, you got the picture - and yes it would be neat to have the Nests come up to Frame rate. Actually, I don't understand why they aren't?

Anybody else wanna chime in?

Again, it's about getting Preview on tricky parts of the project - it is NOT about getting final renders - well not yet anyways.

I think I know the reason why it's worse!

The project A is now referencing Project A but project A is open and on the same T/L. So the nested project has to go back to itself to resolve what belongs in the nested section. One could in theory create a recursive nest that never resolved.

But hey, I think Grazie has lit a fire here. Remember my question about how to create video feedback, that very 70s effect you got when you point a camera at a monitor?

We'll if I can nest a nested project within itself and offset each iteration a few pixels, bingo, the effect I want. Only problem is Vegas will never figure out when to end all the recursion. It should finish rendering sometime after hell freezes over, for the tenth time.

Bob.