Rotoscoping with Vegas & Beziers

farss wrote on 12/29/2008, 12:04 AM
It isn't as hard as you could make it. I've given up many times and only recently got my mojo working on this.

1) Plan, plan, plan. In other words have a long hard look at the problem and think it through. This can save you a lot of work. If it all gets too messy you might do better to start again with another approach.

2) Make certain you have enough nodes. I found things get messy adding more nodes as you progress.

3) Add keframes at the null point of motion first. The smooth interpolation will generally match natural motion.

4) You can select a group of nodes, shift + click. This makes life much easier as the selection holds as you move to the following keframes. I've found it easier to first get the various parts of a moving object roughly aligned correctly and then going back to do a final tweak much easier than trying to tweak each keyframe's nodes all at once.
For example if you were trying to rotoscope a car as it turns a corner treat each wheel as a group of nodes adjusting the mask for just say the back wheel through each keyframe in the one pass and then go back to the first keyframe and select another wheel's nodes and the work through that.

If anyones has any better workflows or ideas please add them.

Bob.

Comments

PeterWright wrote on 12/29/2008, 1:23 AM
Excellent tips Bob - I too have enjoyed a few Vegas-Rotoscoping episodes, and responded well to treatment ...

Now, the big question, I think, is how can SCS improve this capability?

- couple of thoughts -

1. Before adding any new functions, all those processes described by Bob could be made much easier with better interface design / shortcuts.
It should be
- easier to swap tools
- easier to add nodes
-easier to select groups of nodes
- more definite way of picking up Bezier levers - they often seem to appear unsummoned.

2. Add new functions:
- motion tracking
? others
Grazie wrote on 12/29/2008, 2:58 AM
Great list Peter. Apologise if some of mine repeat yours . ..

Here's mine:

* Copy Paste Anchors/Paths

* Needing to go "Off-World" workspace to get to the adjustment "Normal Edit Tool" tool! Arrrgghhh...! This breaks my thought process. And yes we have "D" to rotate thru' the Tool options - that's like the "D" on the Main Timeline too. But I got me mouse in me hand.

* An actual LINE or border for a Mask. Yes I know this means that it is something OTHER than a mask. But we do have an ability to create a edge FEATHER?

* Overlay SNAP/SNAP-OFF Grid!

* A Right Drag over Anchor points to select multiple Anchors

* Split Anchor Point. Yes, I know how implausible it may sound, but even I make mistakes!

I suppose, we are trying to do something that plainly was NOT in the Madison script - we are still talking Bezier Masking here? Yeah? And as for just masking, then we got what we got.

Grazie
Rory Cooper wrote on 12/29/2008, 3:33 AM
I have used the mask to morph between an in and out clip by pasting the Bezier mask from the in clip to the out clip then Vegas will automatically morph between the two even if the node number is different

but Vegas doesn’t keep the process going for the third or forth

Because if it did you could just past the path keys along and Vegas could do the tweening for you morphing as you go along save a lot of hassle rotoscoping
farss wrote on 12/29/2008, 3:46 AM
Indeed getting the 'hang' of Beziers is extremely frustrating, nearly as bad a trying to use something like TrueSpace. It's like whoever designed the thing was from another planet
Then again Vegas does it pretty much the same as all the other apps I've tried them in so I don't think this is anything Maddison specific, it's just the nature of the beast. OK, AE does have a fast Bezier for quick garbage mattes and the like which is very handy and would be nice to have in Vegas.
My feeling is that what we're missing is a decent tutorial on how to use this Bezier thing. I doesn't have to be Vegas specific, one done for PS or AE would be just as useful as they all work much the same. I can find heaps of tuts on doing amazing things with Beziers in AE but darn it all, zero on how to create the Bezier itself.

Of course apart from learning how to use the tool efficiently there's no shortage of nice to haves for Vegas, just the simple stroke a path effect in AE would give Grazie what he wants with a line or border, that you can animate ,already. I'd add using a Bezier to warp rather than mask to that list.

Bob.

Rory Cooper wrote on 12/29/2008, 4:33 AM
Every time I add a new Bezier shape from a new imported clip then past that onto my initial shape then Vegas will morph between 4 or 5 shapes
But if I add a new shape from an existing clip then Vegas will jump to the next shape

Hope this makes sense
farss wrote on 12/29/2008, 5:22 AM
Makes sense.
Nodes can only exist or not. Presumably it can interpolate between a keyframe with 4 nodes and one with 5. If you add one in the middle of those two keyframe that would have four and a half nodes in it. That wouldn't work at all. I suspect any program would have the same problem.

Bob.

TeetimeNC wrote on 12/29/2008, 6:14 AM
Bob, here is a pretty good Illustrator Bezier tutorial.

I think the perfect bezier tool would have these things:
1. Be able to use the wacom tablet pen for placing and manipulating the points.
2. Have a library of standard shapes you could place (similar to what cookie cutter does now).
3. A keyboard shortcut for EVERY state change you can make to the pen tool (e.g., add, delete, change point type, select all, etc.)
4. A floating pallet that shows every keyboard shortcut.

EDIT: The above tutorial suggests as an execise for getting good with the bezier tool to create a figure eight using only two nodes. I'll have to try that one.

Jerry

Coursedesign wrote on 12/29/2008, 8:31 AM
It's been a long time since I rotoed in Vegas. and I ain't going there again.

So many tools available that are actually designed for the job, with variable feathering on the inside and outside separately, and tracking that actually works (even in the AE CS4 box now, Mocha's planar tracking is nearly always far better than past single-point or four-point tracking).

apit34356 wrote on 12/29/2008, 9:36 AM
Coursedesign sums up my general view if you have access to other toys. Motion is always a real pain to roto, especially if interlace. I think for most individuals, having keyframes generated on every frame starting point would be help in complex keying. But this would overburden a simple roto. A choice of spacing keyframes by a motion detection script/utility would be useful I think.