SD to Blu-ray

joeplaysguitar wrote on 7/2/2010, 8:00 PM
Ok, I have some dv 720x480 that I would like to put on Blu-ray, as opposed to DVD, because I want to be able to put as much video as I can per disc. I am using Vegas Pro 9 and DVD Architect 5.

1. I still need to seperate each video stream to different videos. What resolution should I use to render to from Vegas, keeping in mind that they will be put into DVDA and authored to Blu-Ray?

2. What setting do I need to use for DVDA? The default is 1080i.

I have done some testing, and strangely enough, the best results that I have gotten have been to render from Vegas to 720p, and then use the 1080i template in DVDA. This looked better than rendering to both 1080i and 720x480 in Vegas and then using 1080i in DVDA.

Please help. How would you go about this? Thanks!

Comments

joeplaysguitar wrote on 7/2/2010, 8:04 PM
I forgot to mention that I don't mind having black bars on the side. I just want to keep the image from being stretched in any way.
john_dennis wrote on 7/3/2010, 10:53 AM
There is no point in scaling your standard definition video to high definition just to put it on Blu-ray media to get the benefit of 25 GB of space.

1) Render separate video (MPEG-2, 8 mbps) and audio out of Vegas as 720x480.

2) Create a DVD (720x480) project in DVD Architect, add all you titles and create you navigation.

3) Under "File/Properties change the Disk Format to "Blu-ray" and the Target Media size to 25 GB.

4) Then you should see a "Make Blu-ray Disc" Option on the Menu.

5) At that point you can burn to Blu-ray or Prepare an Image.

Page 27 of the DVD Architect Manual shows standard definition as a valid MPEG-2 stream for Blu-ray.
Andy_L wrote on 7/3/2010, 10:59 AM
Unless you really need to put a ton of video on a single disk, you might experiment with Sony AVC (rather than 8Mbps MPEG-2).

I've not heard of anyone who is particularly impressed with the MainConcept plugin in Vegas Pro, and switching to AVC at even modest bitrates may yield quite a bit fewer compression artifacts.

As far as upscaling goes, your end-user's bluRay player will almost certainly do a better job than vegas will, so I'd stay in standard def. This will vary depending on the player, though!
joeplaysguitar wrote on 7/3/2010, 1:07 PM
Thanks to both of you for the comments. I am not interested as much in upscaling as I am simply putting the 720x480 dv on blu-ray as close to "correctly" as possible. I simply don't want the videos to come out looking worse than they would on a dvd (played on an HD TV).
john_dennis wrote on 7/4/2010, 10:37 AM
"I simply don't want the videos to come out looking worse than they would on a dvd (played on an HD TV)."

At the same resolution and MPEG-2 codec, the Blu-ray should be identical to the DVD. There might be some advantage to using the AVC codec. Once you get the workflow down, try the AVC codec and see if it preserves more of the information from the original DV. At the same bit rate most people would expect it to be better.

joeplaysguitar wrote on 7/4/2010, 11:04 AM
So I was looking around in DVDA and I see that I can just start a Blu-ray, and change everything other than format and media size, which of course I want to stay with BR and 25GB. So let me make sure that I have the other settings correct:

Video format: MPEG-2
Bit rate: Blu-ray default is 18 and DVD is 8. Which should I choose here?

Aspect Ratio: Since the video is in 720x480, doesn't that technically count as 16:9, even though that takes into account the black bars on the side? I am thinking staying with 16:9, which should keep the black bars as they are in the DV file.

What about audio format and bit rate? I'm guessing AC-3 stereo over PCM for format, but what about bit rate?

Thanks for hanging in there with me on this.

John_Cline wrote on 7/4/2010, 11:58 AM
I'd say use a bitrate calculator to maximize the bitrate for the amount of video you want to put on the disc and then choose a project bitrate in DVDA that is higher than the bitrate at which you encoded your video so that DVDA won't want to re-encode the video. Blu-ray discs and players can handle bitrates up to around 40 Mbps so you can encode standard definition video at much higher bitrates than the 9.8 mbps maximum for DVD players.

If the video has been rendered at 4:3, then stay at 720x480 4:3. The player will add the bars on the side. You do get into the question of upscaling and whether the player or the TV is going to do it. Some players and TVs have great upscaling algorithms, some don't. If you choose to use Vegas to do the upscaling, you'll have to use a higher bitrate for the encode since the video is now technically at HD resolution.

Since there is usually plenty of room on a Blu-ray discs, I often use uncompressed 48k 24-bit PCM audio. However, if you need to save room in order to put more material on the disc, then AC3 is fine. If it's relatively simple stereo audio, then 192kbps is enough, if there's music involved or it's a particularly good sounding audio track, then 256kbps or higher.
john_dennis wrote on 7/5/2010, 11:11 PM
Well, I spent a fair amount of time today rendering from DV to various bit rates using the Sony AVC templates and the only one I could get to pass through DVD Architect without re-rendering was the canned Blu-ray 1440x1080-60i video stream. I didn't try the higher resolutions since I think changing from 720x480 in Vegas is probably not the best approach. Altering any part of the AVC templates appeared to trigger a render in DVDA. I got no satisfaction at all.

The MPEG-2 templates proved to be quite flexible. I made a test Blu-ray with Groups of Pictures from 15 I-Frames down to 3 and all passed. The results were probably limited by the 9.8 mbps upper limit to the DVD Architect NTSC video stream template and the glaring fact that all of my DV is crap. I was never able to tell the difference between any of them.

Since one of the benefits and the knock on MPEG-2 compared to DV is the long group of pictures, I reasoned that making the group shorter, while saving more complete index frames would lose less from the DV. My tests were indeterminate for all of the reasons stated already.
joeplaysguitar wrote on 7/6/2010, 6:37 AM
John (and others), I appreciate all of your help on this. I came up with the same problems you did using the AVC templates. I finally just decided to use the mainconcept mpeg2 from Vegas, which does not trigger any re-rendering in DVDA.

I rendered out of Vegas as 720x480 mainconcept mpeg2 NTSC template into individual files (I am editing and authoring old 8mm/VHS/VHS-C home movies). I then created a blu-ray project in DVDA, changing the project properties' aspect ratio to 4:3 and the resolution to 720x480. I left the format to mpeg2 and the bit rate to 18Mbps. The Audio I changed to pcm 48,000, but DVDA does re-compress this from the original Vegas file (only takes a second).

The quality is about what I would expect from 8mm home movies on an HDTV, which is acceptable. I am able to fit quite a few on each disc, which is one goal that I had. The project also burns very quickly.

Thanks again for all of your help. Any more comments will be appreciated, since I will not actually be burning these until I get them all recorded in and organized, so there is still time for tweaking!