Semi OT: Disappearing drivers

TGS wrote on 10/2/2007, 9:35 PM
Sorry, I searched and didn't turn up anything at all on the subject. I'm skipping the audio forum as it's hardly used and this one has a variety of users.
I'm using a new Phonic Helix 18 Firewire mixer and it seems to work fine except everytime I turn my computer off then back on, the ASIO drivers are gone and it's almost as if the software has been removed except the Icons are still there, if I click the Icon, the next program Icon comes up, but no information is available. It's a blank slate.
I know the drivers are not 'signed' by microsoft, but what else is new?
I already tried looking for new drivers and none are available, besides that, they seem to work fine, while they're working. So how are they being deleted from my system after I shut down? Not listed in 'Properties' of Vegas anymore until I re-install.
Any suggestions? I'm befuddled

Comments

TGS wrote on 10/3/2007, 12:00 PM
el bumpo
jrazz wrote on 10/3/2007, 12:12 PM
No clue what is going on, but you could leave your system on. Another option would be to look for an older driver to try. I did a search trying to come up with something silmilar to what you describe but nothing is showing up via a search. If there are no older drivers maybe contact the products support to see if they have anything that might work.

For instance, I had a DVD writer that would not be recognized by DVDA. I sent in a ticket and they sent me a custom .dll file to install so DVDA would see the burner and utilize it.

j razz
Former user wrote on 10/3/2007, 12:18 PM
What happens if you disconnect the cable and reconnect?

Dave T2
TGS wrote on 10/3/2007, 1:17 PM
Thanks for the answers. I need to test more, but I just discovered that when I turn the mixer off, all the information disappears from the computer and the drivers are missing in Vegas preferences. But when I turn it back on, it all shows back up. I never thought the mixer would have to be on, to get the drivers to show up. Maybe it's okay, but I also noticed, as I re-installed everything just now, that I saw a small windows message show up as it was installing saying there was some sort of problem with the install. But it seems to work fine while I'm using it.

I think this is the only set of drivers. The disc says v1.0

I do know, when I had to remove the program using the add/remove program in windows, the list shows the Helix 18 but nothing is shown for the size (like 15MB) like all the other programs show. Even now, while it's working, it shows nothing for size.

I don't want to disconnect the cable (1394?) while it's on, but I did it while it's off and can't see any difference.
TGS wrote on 10/3/2007, 1:45 PM
Okay, I just shut down the computer and restarted and everything is missing again. So apparently, I have to re-install every time I want to use it if the computer has been shut off since the last time.Not the greatest, but it is a quick install and I'm not going to be using the mixer constantly

If anybody has heard of such a thing or knows a remedy, feel free to let me know.
TGS wrote on 10/3/2007, 2:56 PM
I was at the Phonic site looking for answers and stumbled on this, which has nothing to do with my problem, but interesting:


How quiet are the Helix Board preamps compared to Mackie Onyx?
Phonic uses the identical Firewire chip implementation as Onyx and the Helix pre-amps are comparable spec-wise to Onyx as well. Of course, the characteristic sound of of the pre-amps, eq, etc., are all subjective. Lastly, Phonic owns its own factories and we have our own engineers on the production lines doing quality control while Mackie contracts production out to the lowest bidding Chinese factory. We are very confident in our build quality. I'm not sure the same can be said for Onyx after the many component failures that they have experienced.

We are confident that our performance, our MAP price (no additional FW interface required), and our complete warranty make the Helix very competitive to the Mackie product. With the money you save on Helix, you always have the option of adding a specific preamp (tube, esoteric, etc) that exactly suits your taste at a later date.

farss wrote on 10/3/2007, 3:21 PM
I don't have the Phonic mixer as yet but I'm seriously considering getting one, so the following is partly in my own interest!

I do have the M-Audio Firewire 410 which might seem to have a similar non issue...or not.

Try this. Power up the Phonic and have it connected before starting Windows. If that doesn't help try that and uninstalling any other audio drivers.

Bob.
TGS wrote on 10/4/2007, 3:26 AM
Well, that was encouraging. I un-installed the program. Then I shut off the computer. I turned on the mixer, I powered up my computer, I installed the drivers and Helix program exe. It worked fine. I shut everything down. I again powered up the mixer, turned on my computer and everything was there.
Now, my question is...do I always have to power up the mixer first, or was that just to install the drivers?
That was a neat trick I don't think I would have figured out.
farss wrote on 10/4/2007, 4:14 AM
I think you should always have the mixer turned on before you turn on the PC. I really doubt the drivers are getting un-installed, they're just not loading and it seems for some inexplicable reason Windows only goes looking for them when it starts up.
OR
Possibly it's because the driver needs to load code into the mixed and that process is part of the driver startup but only on powerup.

Whatever the reason, just try the sequence. Power up mixer, then power up Windows.

Bob.
TGS wrote on 10/4/2007, 8:51 PM
Well, Bob got it right. I had the computer on all day, without the mixer. I turned off the computer. I then turned on my mixer and turned the computer back on and everything is still loaded. So, as long as I turn the mixer on, before the computer, everything is good. Thanks Bob, for that knowledge.

Now if anybody cares, here's some more info on Phonic Helix mixers. The difference between the mkI and mkII is not just cosmetic. All those fancy knobs and switches mean almost nothing on the mk1 when it comes to firewire recording. This is the way I prefer it, with the mic going directly to the recording, but for those who wish to utilize tone controls and effects while recording, you should either get the mkII or Phonic will make a permanent change on your mk1 at no cost to you, at an authorized service center, allowing you to utilize the tones and effects while recording. The mkII gives you a pre/post switch giving you the choice of routing your mic directly to your recording or going thru the tones and FX first. The only knob that matters on the mkI is the gain control on each input channel, which you can dial from line level to mic. You can also use the vu meters to adjust the gain.
Now having said that, I can still use the mixer to run those signals into amplifiers for a live sound and completely adjust that separately (I'm pretty sure, I haven't actually tried that yet) Not a super detailed manual. Par for the course these days.
This was fairly easy to set up and I now have 14 inputs I can record at once, through Vegas. I think I can squeeze a couple of more inputs if I really need 'em. 8 inputs have XLR & 1/4" jacks, the rest are 1/4" stereo inputs (which I can split into mono recording tracks). So far I've only transfered some old multi-track recordings. I thought the input levels through the firewire seemed a little low, but I read that this is normal and -18dB is what it will show for 0dB analog going in.
It seems to work fine for my needs. The recordings sounded good.
If I didn't suffer from tinnitus, I'd tell you how quiet the operation was too. Seemed pretty good thru the ringing.
So far, I haven't figured out how to monitor the recording from my computer, while the ASIO drivers are being used. Have been using a separate amp/speakers for that.
Well, if all I have to adjust is the gain controls for recording, this should last me the rest of my life. Ha ha, I won't count on that.

This is probably way too big and bulky if you're not a musician. But if you are a musician, you are probably broke like me, and I only paid $379. + $15 shipping for the Helix 18 Firewire mkI, New. I actually do prefer my mic to go directly to the recording, uncolored, and I don't mind that I can both record and use it through an amplifier at the same time too.
Just remember, you usually get what you pay for and I haven't had this long. I may have found a real deal too.
PS: The Helix 18, mkII's are about $100. more