Smart-rendering: Vegas > Womble translator

NickHope wrote on 2/20/2007, 11:38 PM

Those awfully nice people at Womble have written a wonderful utility which will convert a Vegas EDL (Edit Decision List) into a Womble Mpeg Video Wizard project.

If you have a load of trimmed HDV clips on your Vegas timeline, then export an EDL, then convert it with this program, the trimmed files open up on the Womble timeline. Once there you can smart-render them (i.e. archive them without re-encoding) according this method (from Kathy at Womble):

- turn on the "Frozen" by clicking on

This means you can archive your HDV .m2t files without re-encoding them (but note that Womble may re-encode the very ends of the clips) and is a great workaround until Vegas has smart-rendering.

This came about as a result of the thread "Main Concept m2t for HDV archive... lossless?".

Not that JonnyRoy's script to export a Womble trim list file can be used to achieve the same result.

Comments

Bill Ravens wrote on 2/21/2007, 7:03 AM

WoooHooooo

johnmeyer wrote on 2/21/2007, 7:35 AM

This was posted in another thread a few weeks ago, and I've used the process several times. It is WONDERFUL.

However, there is one small bug that you may not have noticed. In Womble, if you press "Details" in the Export dialog just before you export the project, and check to see if the video or audio will be recompressed, you may find that the audio shows portions in red, indicating that they will be recompressed. Upon a little investigation, I found that the export utility inserts volume envelopes (to use the Vegas term). You have to remove all of these prior to export, or the audio will be re-compressed. In Womble, you do this by clicking on an event; press Ctrl-D to switch to edit mode, and then right-click to bring up a selection list. Select the Remove Envelope option. Repeat for the remaining events. Takes a minute or so (depending on the number of edits).

CClub wrote on 2/23/2007, 10:52 AM

I don't know much about Edit Decision Lists (probably evidenced by my next question). Any chance that would ever be something that someone using FCP could import into their program from an EDL I created in Vegas?

MarkWWW wrote on 2/23/2007, 12:16 PM

You can transfer projects between Vegas and FCP by exporting from Vegas in AAF format and then importing the AAF file into FCP using an add-on utility called Automatic Duck.

Mark

NickHope wrote on 3/21/2007, 1:08 PM

John, thanks for the warning about those envelopes.

Where is this "export" project command and dialog you speak of?

I just drag the clips to the trim window then press "start" all (an icon of 2 people running). I see no dialog box.

johnmeyer wrote on 3/21/2007, 7:56 PM

Where is this "export" project command and dialog you speak of?

This is in Womble MPEG Video Wizard. The interface on the Womble products is, unfortunately, quite non-standard, so I can't find the exact version I'm using. Looks like it was release in June 2005. So, if you're using MPEG-VCR or if you have a later version of MEPG Video Wizard, you may have a different interface.

In the interface on my Womble product, there is a red "record" button in the lower right corner of the timeline interface. That button activates the Export dialog. Alternatively, I can select the "Export" icon from the main floating toolbar. Once the Export dialog is open, you should find a "Monitor" tab, and within that tab a "Details" button.

Unfortunately we cannot post images on this site, but here's a link to a very small image file that shows the dialog to which I am referring. The link is good for seven days:

Womble Export Dialog

NickHope wrote on 3/22/2007, 12:47 AM

Thanks John. I have a very recent version of Womble MVW.

Pressing that red record button gives me a more standard "Windows" looking "Save As" dialog without separate tabs. It still has a "details" button on it and if I press that it will show me an "Export MPEG Detail Information" window which highlights what will be re-encoded.

I only have archived (from Womble) .m2t files on my system now, but when I've got some raw ones from the camera again I'll check this out. Thanks.

By the way do you have "GOP Trim" selected under Tools>Options>Export when you do your trimming? I can't seem to figure out exactly what that does. Whether it just trims to the nearest I-frame or what.

johnmeyer wrote on 3/22/2007, 9:33 AM

By the way do you have "GOP Trim" selected under Tools>Options>Export when you do your trimming?

I'm not at the computer on which Womble is installed. However, I believe that option controls whether you can do frame-accurate trims. In one state, I think, it trims at the frame you select, and then re-encodes the two GOPs on either side of that edit point. In the other state, it moves your edit point to the nearest GOP and makes the cut there, without encoding. Personally, I don't know why anyone would prefer having their edit point moved just to save a little quality for a few milliseconds of video that will be gone in an instant. For 99% of the situations I can imagine, the degradation will not be noticed, whereas a cut at the wrong point most definitely would be.

Normally I'll do anything to save or improve quality, but this is not one of those instances.

NickHope wrote on 6/1/2007, 1:34 AM

A warning for anyone trimming m2t files using Womble...

Vegas 7 handles "Sony flavour" m2t files much better than "Main Concept" flavour m2t files. If you trim a file with Womble it will subsequently be treated in Vegas 7 as a "Main Concept" flavour m2t and the enhancements to m2t handling made in Vegas 7 will not apply to it.

More here and here.

Stuart Robinson wrote on 6/1/2007, 6:50 PM

I'd like to add another word of warning. I used Womble for quite some time, cutting together SD MPEG-2 files. I found that different DVD players would treat the files differently, some pausing on edit points, some refusing to fast-forward or reverse and others crashing altogether (with Pioneer machines being the worst).

I switched to VideoReDo and have had none of the problems above, it seems to be far more competent at smart rendering than Womble. I don't know how either handle HD files as yet, but smart renders that crash your player aren't much use.