Smartphone footage not playing smoothly in Vegas

Comments

Richard-Bril wrote on 9/30/2020, 2:37 PM

The only impediment for me in using other 3rd party apps on my phone for filming would be that I wouldn't be able to use the Movi gimbal...which takes control over the camera's settings once connected via Bluetooth. I'm doing most of my filming now with the Movi since it gives a much "steadier" and cinematic look to all my phone filming

Richard-Bril wrote on 10/1/2020, 12:23 PM

This is prolly off topic for this thread, but is there a way in Vegas to insert the newly rendered MP4 tiles (rendered from VFR to CFR) into my VP project that is already edited...so that I don't have to re-align each clip to fit the project? Thanks!

wwaag wrote on 10/1/2020, 12:34 PM

Sure. One strategy is to place all of the newly rendered files into a folder. The files names must be the same. Then do a Swap Video Files where it replaces the original files with the newly rendered files. Here's the dialog.

Another strategy (requires all original files in the same folder) is to rename the original file folder, load the project which will bring up the missing files dialog. Then navigate to the new files folder selecting the first file. The remaining files should also be replaced.

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

VEGASDerek wrote on 10/1/2020, 12:34 PM

Try using the "Swap Files" feature in the Project Media window.

Richard-Bril wrote on 10/1/2020, 2:09 PM

Thank you for the answers. I copied all the re-rendered MP4s to a folder called CFR, then renamed each file (by removing the CFR extension) so that the filename would be exactly the same as the original files. (This took a bit of time with 60 files. Maybe the price tag on HOS is worth it!--the conversion of the 60 files took several hours.)

I then right-clicked in the Project Media window and selected Swap Video Files. I navigated to the new CFR directory I had created and clicked OK. Even though there was no message, I thought it had swapped all files. However upon inspection I don't think it did because when I right-click on one of the video files in the Project Media window and look at the file size, it doesn't reflect the new files in the CFR directory, but rather the original one. Am I doing this right? When I Google how to swap video files, I find instructions on how to Replace Files...but it seems that has to be done one-by-one. If I'm missing a step in the Swap Video Files process, please lemme know. Otherwise, should I just move all the original MP4s into a backup directory and drop the new CFR files (of the exact same name) right into the project folder?

Thanks again

wwaag wrote on 10/1/2020, 2:44 PM

"This took a bit of time with 60 files." You need a batch renaming tool. There are lots of freeware renamers. I use one called ReNamer.

As an aside, there is also a MediaRenamer tool in HOS for renaming project media.

From the help files:

"Click the Swap Media button to replace video files in the project with alternative files with the same file name. You will need to select a folder where the exchange files are stored. Any reference to a video file in the project will be changed to refer to the new file in the specified folder if there is a file with the same name in that folder. The file extension is not relevant."

I personally don't like the idea of having the "same" file names because of the confusion you described. I much prefer having a file tag that clearly differentiates the original from the replacement--e.g. cfr in your case.

There is another tool MediaFinder that enables you to do just that--search for files with the same base name but with an added filetag. Once found, you can then do a batch replace. Once done, you can clearly see that the files have been correctly replaced unlike use of the same name. Here's an example where the original file would be replaced with a "proxy" file tag.

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

Richard-Bril wrote on 10/1/2020, 2:56 PM

Thanks again for the help, I do appreciate it. I followed those instructions to a T (for "Swap Video Files" from the Project Media window), I've tried 8 times and it won't do it. By right-clicking on an individual video file in the Project Media window and selecting Replace...then pointing to the other file...that works...and you can see the thumbnail in the timeline update.

wwaag wrote on 10/1/2020, 3:07 PM

"I've tried 8 times and it won't do it."

Sounds like a bug to me if its not working, although I must admit that I have never tried the built-in Swap files function. There used to be a number of freeware scripts for doing batch replacements for Sony versions of Vegas, but I have no idea whether they were updated in support of Magix versions.

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

Richard-Bril wrote on 10/1/2020, 3:18 PM

I just went ahead and moved all the original MP4 files out of the project folder, then replaced them with the rendered CFR files (of the same name). I opened Vegas, loaded the project file and it took forever to populate the thumbnails and be ready to hit the play button. I wonder if I should have deleted the .sfk files in the project media folder...don't those probably reference the original MP4 files?

wwaag wrote on 10/1/2020, 4:19 PM

I wonder if I should have deleted the .sfk files in the project media folder. No. It would taken even longer. So long as the file names are the same, it shouldn't matter. Replace does take time--especially if you opt for thumbnails.

AKA the HappyOtter at https://tools4vegas.com/. System 1: Intel i7-8700k with HD 630 graphics plus an Nvidia RTX4070 graphics card. System 2: Intel i7-3770k with HD 4000 graphics plus an AMD RX550 graphics card. System 3: Laptop. Dell Inspiron Plus 16. Intel i7-11800H, Intel Graphics. Current cameras include Panasonic FZ2500, GoPro Hero11 and Hero8 Black plus a myriad of smartPhone, pocket cameras, video cameras and film cameras going back to the original Nikon S.

JN- wrote on 10/1/2020, 4:20 PM

@Richard-Bril I've had to do this when going back over some old projects. Although its slow and tedious, even with that many files, I simply remove the old files, and then when vp prompts that it can’t find the file, I set it to find my new file. It will keep going back to the new folder of files that you have created for each file, repetitive, but it gets there. That way you could have used the new CFR part name, so also making it clearer to yourself that the media is CFR. Different strokes for different folks.

I would delete any old .sfk files etc, then let vp re-create them, just in case.

Last changed by JN- on 10/1/2020, 4:24 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

---------------------------------------------

VFR2CFR, Variable frame rate to Constant frame rate link to zip here.

Copies Video Converts Audio to AAC, link to zip here.

Convert 2 Lossless, link to ZIP here.

Convert Odd 2 Even (frame size), link to ZIP here

Benchmarking Continued thread + link to zip here

Codec Render Quality tables zip

---------------------------------------------

PC ... Corsair case, own build ...

CPU .. i9 9900K, iGpu UHD 630

Memory .. 32GB DDR4

Graphics card .. MSI RTX 2080 ti

Graphics driver .. latest studio

PSU .. Corsair 850i

Mboard .. Asus Z390 Code

 

Laptop… XMG

i9-11900k, iGpu n/a

Memory 64GB DDR4

Graphics card … Laptop RTX 3080

Richard-Bril wrote on 10/1/2020, 6:33 PM

Thanks so much for the answers. I'm glad you're back here, JN, I was about to PM you, but I figure it might be more beneficial to share this here.

Last night I ran all the MP4 files I'm using for a project (from my Note 9 phone...about 60) through your batch file to convert them to CFR. Before doing that I downloaded your newer version of the batch files (if I'm not mistaken, you updated your batch files and the link you originally shared in your first post of this thread now points to the new files). I deleted your old batch files and replaced them with the new ones. Though I had only converted one MP4 yesterday using your old batch files, I didn't do any editing with the converted file, I just dropped it into Vegas to compare the quality difference with the native MP4 from my phone. And as you said, the quality setting of 17 resulted in a larger file size than the original. I found that a setting of 19.5 got me pretty close to the original file size with no real noticeable quality loss. Without thinking much about it, before going to bed I set my 60 files to do the conversion (using your new batch file) with a setting of 19.5 for quality. This morning I did notice that the file sizes of all the newly created files were considerably smaller than the original files (unlike the test I did yesterday with a setting of 19.5. I then began the process of replacing the original MP4s in my VP project with the new files. I was unable to use the Swap Video Files feature (in both Vegas 17 and 18), I finally just moved all the original MP4s to another directory, renamed the converted ones (removing the -[CFR] from the file name) and dropped those converted files into Vegas. When I opened Vegas and loaded my project, it placed the new (CFR) MP4 files just fine in the places they were supposed to be, but Vegas began running so slow, it pretty much rendered my computer useless. I tried this on 2 computers (one with VP 17 and the other with VP 18), both yielding the same problem. The newly created MP4 files are somehow slowing VP (or my system) down so much I can't do any editing, or anything else with the computer, for that matter. Like I said above, I didn't do enough testing yesterday with the converted file that your old batch file created, but I did notice today, using your updated batch files that the 17 setting (for quality), yields a smaller file size than the original. So, it would seem to me something changed in your batch files in this new version. I don't know if that change is what is causing these newly converted MP4s to not do well in VP, or if it's something else. With your permission I will now post MediaInfo for 1 original MP4 file (straight from my phone), followed by MediaInfo for the converted file done with your batch file...to see if you can spot anything in the converted file that may be causing my machines to freeze up when trying to edit in Vegas:

MediaInfo for original MP4 from Note 9 phone:

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Trade Slave 1\Desktop\Raw Footage\Done it to Me\Movi_2020-09-14_11-43-10.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                                 : mp42 (isom/mp42)
File size                                : 178 MiB
Duration                                 : 12 s 450 ms
Overall bit rate                         : 120 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-09-14 18:43:10
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-09-14 18:43:10
com.android.version                      : 10
Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=30
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 12 s 450 ms
Bit rate                                 : 120 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 29.559 FPS
Minimum frame rate                       : 7.927 FPS
Maximum frame rate                       : 39.543 FPS
Standard                                 : NTSC
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.489
Stream size                              : 178 MiB (100%)
Title                                    : VideoHandle
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-09-14 18:43:10
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-09-14 18:43:10
Color range                              : Limited
colour_range_Original                    : Full
Color primaries                          : BT.709
colour_primaries_Original                : BT.601 PAL
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
transfer_characteristics_Original        : BT.601
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
matrix_coefficients_Original             : BT.470 System B/G
mdhd_Duration                            : 12450
Codec configuration box                  : avcCAudio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 12 s 423 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 128 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 kHz
Frame rate                               : 43.066 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 194 KiB (0%)
Title                                    : SoundHandle
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-09-14 18:43:10
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-09-14 18:43:10

And here is the MediaInfo from the same file after being converted with your *new* batch file (with a setting of 19.5 for quality (because with the old batch file that's how I got the file size to be the same as the original...though with this new one those quality settings seem to have a different effect on the file size)):

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Trade Slave 1\Desktop\Raw Footage\Done it to Me\CFR\Movi_2020-09-14_11-42-24.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 260 MiB
Duration                                 : 18 s 853 ms
Overall bit rate                         : 116 Mb/s
Writing application                      : Lavf58.20.100
Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 5 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 5 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 18 s 853 ms
Bit rate                                 : 114 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.457
Stream size                              : 260 MiB (100%)
Title                                    : VideoHandle
Writing library                          : x264 core 157 r2970 5493be8
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=8 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=19.5 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Language                                 : English
Color range                              : Full
Codec configuration box                  : avcCAudio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 18 s 809 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 128 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 kHz
Frame rate                               : 43.066 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 294 KiB (0%)
Title                                    : SoundHandle
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1

Thank you for your time, it is much appreciated!

Best,
Richard

JN- wrote on 10/1/2020, 7:57 PM

@Richard-Bril Hi Richard, the two files have different durations. I wonder is it possible that you are not comparing the same two files. No changes were made to the ffmpeg commands in any of the 8 batch files, I only added a simple bit of error trapping (should have been done previously) in case the required ffmpeg files etc weren't available.

Given your interest in quality earlier on in this thread, I'm surprised that you decided to match the file sizes using 19.5, this reduces the quality. I would use a higher quality file, a bit bigger to keep the quality up, that's why I choose -17, but it is your choice and it all depends on other factors of course.

The files are 4K UHD, so they will tax your machine, unless it's reasonably powerful.

It's 02:12 AM, so bedtime, best of luck.

Last changed by JN- on 10/1/2020, 8:11 PM, changed a total of 3 times.

---------------------------------------------

VFR2CFR, Variable frame rate to Constant frame rate link to zip here.

Copies Video Converts Audio to AAC, link to zip here.

Convert 2 Lossless, link to ZIP here.

Convert Odd 2 Even (frame size), link to ZIP here

Benchmarking Continued thread + link to zip here

Codec Render Quality tables zip

---------------------------------------------

PC ... Corsair case, own build ...

CPU .. i9 9900K, iGpu UHD 630

Memory .. 32GB DDR4

Graphics card .. MSI RTX 2080 ti

Graphics driver .. latest studio

PSU .. Corsair 850i

Mboard .. Asus Z390 Code

 

Laptop… XMG

i9-11900k, iGpu n/a

Memory 64GB DDR4

Graphics card … Laptop RTX 3080

Richard-Bril wrote on 10/2/2020, 12:28 AM

So sorry about that, I gave you the wrong MediaInfo on the second one there, though that file was converted to CFR using your script. I'll post the correct MediaInfo below for the file I referenced above...which I converted to CFR using your batch file.

Before I do that I wanted to let you know that I spent the last couple of hours rendering that same MP4 file in HandBrake, tweaking all the controls I could...to try and get the same video quality as your batch file creates. I can't do it...the HandBrake renders are all a bit washed out in the dark parts especially. I must have run 20 different renders in HandBrake...and even though the frame rate is corrected to Constant, when I line up the video clip in Vegas to do a quick A/B comparison with the original and with your CFR render, every single HandBrake render is a bit washed out and not as vibrant as the clip I rendered with your batch file. Not that it matters, but why do you think that is? Is your batch file applying some setting that I can't replicate in HB? I like using your batch file...as long as I can figure out why my VP project won't run after I switch out all the original MP4s (that are bigger in size) with the new CFR MP4s created with your batch file. OK, here's the MediaInfo on that file rendered with your batch file...

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\Trade Slave 1\Desktop\Raw Footage\Done it to Me\CFR\Movi_2020-09-14_11-43-10.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 178 MiB
Duration                                 : 12 s 446 ms
Overall bit rate                         : 120 Mb/s
Writing application                      : Lavf58.20.100Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L5.1
Format settings                          : CABAC / 5 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 5 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 12 s 446 ms
Bit rate                                 : 120 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.483
Stream size                              : 178 MiB (100%)
Title                                    : VideoHandle
Writing library                          : x264 core 157 r2970 5493be8
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=8 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=19.5 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Language                                 : English
Color range                              : Full
Codec configuration box                  : avcCAudio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 12 s 423 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 128 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 kHz
Frame rate                               : 43.066 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 194 KiB (0%)
Title                                    : SoundHandle
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1

 

Richard-Bril wrote on 10/2/2020, 12:33 AM

P.S. I am concerned about the quality of the files, but to have a resulting file that is larger than the original and supposedly sacrificing some quality due to being re-rendered, I couldn't wrap my head around having larger files than the original.

Richard-Bril wrote on 10/2/2020, 3:10 AM

Tonight I took all my VP project files over to my son's computer, he has a fast computer with a good card and I've edited on his machine before since it's better equipped. I wanted to see if his computer would slow down once putting all the newly created CFR files in place of the phone's original ones. His computer did the same thing mine did...it played the original phone files (in Vegas) fine, but once swapping them for the new CFR ones (which are smaller file sizes), it went about 3 or 4 times as slow and couldn't play the timeline properly.

Mohammed_Anis wrote on 10/2/2020, 3:24 AM

So obviously there is some serious "variableness" in the frame rate of my Note 9 files. Funny how VLC and other media players play these with no jitter, but Vegas (17 at least) will not.

The FR reading in this file is: 29.559 FPS, but the minimum/maximum are so far off from that (7.927 & 39.543), I'm surprised.

I checked some of the HandBrake renders I made of this clip (which I set to 29.97 in HandBrake), but MediaInfo shows them as Variable...although very close (min 29.821 & 29.831)...which I suppose is "close enough" for Vegas to play smoothly? Is it considered Constant when the min/max are that close? My stock footage from StoryBlocks is showing as Constant with no min/max.



In a nutshell, VLC and any "player" takes a video, reads the frames and dumps it as soon as its read.

VEGAS and any NLE software doesn't do that. It keeps everything.


If the playback is "jittery" but it doesn't do anything like crash the software or freeze operations, then I suggest setting the Preview on Auto and just edit way, then render it, as rendering it will obviously come out with a constant bit rate.

Transcoding with Handbrake is a perfectly viable solution, especially with phone footage. The data lost isn't that significant. You don't need to maintain its pure pristine condition. I don't why we're circling between FFMPEG and other encoders.

Last changed by Mohammed_Anis on 10/2/2020, 3:26 AM, changed a total of 2 times.

"I'm a part of all that I've met." Alfred Lord Tennyson

Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/VEGASCREATIVEACADEMY


Card name: AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT
Processor: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core Processor             (24 CPUs), ~3.7GHz
Memory: 32768MB RAM
Monitor Id: PHLC18F
Native Mode: 3840 x 2160(p) (59.997Hz)
Storage Devices: 2 SSDS, One large HD. VEGAS is installed on SSD

 

JN- wrote on 10/2/2020, 4:21 AM

@Richard-Bril “but once swapping them for the new CFR ones (which are smaller file sizes), it went about 3 or 4 times as slow and couldn't play the timeline properly.” Thats weird. I am assuming that your projects properties are set to 29.970 fps and 3840 x 2160?

If you can supply for download a sample original clip that causes this problem we can check it out on our machines.

Please publish your machines specs. ideally both. From memory I think the recommended specs for 4K editing is an 8 core cpu, 32gb memory, modern gpu. Make sure you have proxy files available. If not right click the file(s) in project media and select create video proxy, you can select and create many at once. The interesting thing is that the video proxy (.sfvp0) files are CFR, even if the timeline/source media is VFR. You can improve preview playback by reducing the playback from "Good" and "Best/full" if that's what it’s already set at.

It's possible that if you were happy to use the 2 lower preview settings, with proxies, that you could have got away without converting to CFR, the VFR files would only then be used when rendering.

I use some sample phone FHD and UHD phone clips to test the batch files. If you cannot make available your clips then I can make them available.

Its a good idea to publish your machines specs in your user profile, that way if you had any other queries in the future then you don’t have to keep reposting them.

At the start of any discussion, whats mostly needed by users are 3 items ... your machine specs, mediainfo of clip and project properties.

“I gave you the wrong MediaInfo on the second one there” No worries, I suspected as much, but couldn’t be certain, as although I could make out your folder names and locations, the filenames were cut off.

 

Last changed by JN- on 10/2/2020, 2:13 PM, changed a total of 7 times.

---------------------------------------------

VFR2CFR, Variable frame rate to Constant frame rate link to zip here.

Copies Video Converts Audio to AAC, link to zip here.

Convert 2 Lossless, link to ZIP here.

Convert Odd 2 Even (frame size), link to ZIP here

Benchmarking Continued thread + link to zip here

Codec Render Quality tables zip

---------------------------------------------

PC ... Corsair case, own build ...

CPU .. i9 9900K, iGpu UHD 630

Memory .. 32GB DDR4

Graphics card .. MSI RTX 2080 ti

Graphics driver .. latest studio

PSU .. Corsair 850i

Mboard .. Asus Z390 Code

 

Laptop… XMG

i9-11900k, iGpu n/a

Memory 64GB DDR4

Graphics card … Laptop RTX 3080

JN- wrote on 10/2/2020, 9:54 AM

This is prolly off topic for this thread, but is there a way in Vegas to insert the newly rendered MP4 tiles (rendered from VFR to CFR) into my VP project that is already edited...so that I don't have to re-align each clip to fit the project? Thanks!

@Richard-Bril I added 8 more drag and drop batch files that keeps the original filenames. CFR versions are now saved to a folder called CFR. These extra batch files have the same batch filenames and functionality as the other 8 but have an "a" added to the filename.

Use "01 VFR2CFR-CPU encoding-Output to h264-Win Drag and Drop.bat" to process files and change output filename, adding CFR.

Use "01a VFR2CFR-CPU encoding-Output to h264-Win Drag and Drop.bat" to process files and not change output filename. Output CFR files will be saved to a folder called CFR.

 

If you want to remove the VP generated ancillary files you can use "ZapAllMagixXtraFiles.bat" to do so. Just copy it to the relevant folder and double click it.

Last changed by JN- on 10/2/2020, 10:38 AM, changed a total of 4 times.

---------------------------------------------

VFR2CFR, Variable frame rate to Constant frame rate link to zip here.

Copies Video Converts Audio to AAC, link to zip here.

Convert 2 Lossless, link to ZIP here.

Convert Odd 2 Even (frame size), link to ZIP here

Benchmarking Continued thread + link to zip here

Codec Render Quality tables zip

---------------------------------------------

PC ... Corsair case, own build ...

CPU .. i9 9900K, iGpu UHD 630

Memory .. 32GB DDR4

Graphics card .. MSI RTX 2080 ti

Graphics driver .. latest studio

PSU .. Corsair 850i

Mboard .. Asus Z390 Code

 

Laptop… XMG

i9-11900k, iGpu n/a

Memory 64GB DDR4

Graphics card … Laptop RTX 3080

Richard-Bril wrote on 10/2/2020, 2:58 PM
If the playback is "jittery" but it doesn't do anything like crash the software or freeze operations, then I suggest setting the Preview on Auto and just edit way, then render it, as rendering it will obviously come out with a constant bit rate.

Unfortunately the Vegas rendered final video has the "jitter" in it (caused by the VFR footage that Vegas doesn't take kindly to). If it were just a matter of dealing with the jitter in the editing phase in Vegas I'd be a happy camper. But this jerky motion cased by the VFR is passed on to the final render. On my slower computers I have so much lag and choppy playback in the editing view of Vegas, I can live with that, but when the final rendered version has little jerky bits when played back on youtube or through a media player, that's when it is too bothersome to live with...after all the work we put into making our videos.

Transcoding with Handbrake is a perfectly viable solution, especially with phone footage. The data lost isn't that significant. You don't need to maintain its pure pristine condition. I don't why we're circling between FFMPEG and other encoders.

I would agree with you (though of course I'd rather just be able to edit the native footage the phone puts out without having to re-render everything, *however*, the FFMpeg batch files JN created give me a considerable better image quality than the best render settings HandBrake has given me...and I've used dozens of tweaks and settings trying to get the quality as good.

Grazie wrote on 10/2/2020, 10:39 PM

@Richard-Bril - I had to do a Lock-Down 60th Birthday Anniversary. I had nearly 50 vids from different iPhone and Android. I smacked them through Wondershare's Video Converter into VP18 and VP didn't blink!

https://videoconverter.wondershare.com/?gclid=CjwKCAjwn9v7BRBqEiwAbq1Ey5wm0UqApUkLK-5vYAo4ruTmbtose7F6NUJ2fVkLyE-HlculUPFvyBoCMssQAvD_BwE

Richard-Bril wrote on 10/3/2020, 12:31 AM

If you can supply for download a sample original clip that causes this problem we can check it out on our machines.

Good idea. I just uploaded 3 versions of the same file;

  1. Original from phone
  2. CFR converted from your batch file (at 19.5)
  3. A HandBrake render (to CFR) that I created using some of the higher quality settings.

I think a little recap is in order before you d/l these files and play them. I'm concerned that you won't find anything "wrong" with the CFR file I converted using your batch file...because it's just 1 single file. Even if I load that up in Vegas (as a single file), though it won't play AS smoothly as the original file, it WILL play. It's when I have 62 of these converted files (plus about 70 other files (stock footage, stills, etc) that VP will not play smooth enough to edit (but it's because of the 62 CFR batch files that causes this, as with the original MP4s from the phone, I was able to navigate and edit through the timeline relatively easily). The reason I'm sending the HandBrake version of this clip (which is 12 seconds, BTW) is to show you the difference in video quality from the HB render compared to your batch render. If you line all 3 files up in VP (on top of each other) and hit the Mute button to do an A/B comparison on any still frame, you'll see that (especially) the darks in the HB render are very washed out compared to the original file as well as the batch conversion file. Your batch conversion does an excellent job with the video quality...which I was not able to replicate in HB. *THE PROBLEM* however with your CFR converted files is that when I pop them into VP, it slows things waaaaay down and makes play in the editing pane so choppy I can barely do anything, for some strange reason. The file sizes are smaller than the originals, but there is something tripping up the system. To render the edited video in VP using your batch converted files takes longer than rendering with the original phone MP4s. (I haven't tried rendering all 62 of these MP4s in HB to see if I would get a similar result with VP slowing down...mainly because I don't want to settle on the quality of the HB renders. I'd almost rather live with the jitter in the final product than to downgrade the video quality with a not-so-good HB render.)

  1. Original http://riovision.org/01%20Original%20(Note9).mp4
  2. Batch http://riovision.org/02%20Batch%20(19.5).mp4
  3. HandBrake http://riovision.org/03%20HandBrake%20(HQ).m4v

Please publish your machines specs.

I will do this...but reluctantly...because you'll probably balk when you see my computer specs and you may call attention to the computer's inability rather than to the issue of the smartphone's MP4s causing *slight* jitter in VP both when editing AND in the final render. By no means am I editing on good enough machines, though my son's gaming machine is probably good enough. The reason I'm hesitant to post this is because the jittery motion that shows up in VP on my Phone MP4 clips isn't related to the computer's power/speed. The editing ease and flow within Vegas is definitely related to the computer, but I'll live (for now).

My son's computer (that I have done a lot of editing on): 4 Core, Intel i7-7770 3.60GHz, 32GB of RAM, SSD drives, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB

My 2 Dells out here are identical (I have VP17 on one and 18 on the other): 4 Core Intel i7-3770 3.40GHz, 8GB of RAM, a single 5400rpm drive and onboard graphics card. (I know!--not a computer for video editing!)

Make sure you have proxy files available. If not right click the file(s) in project media and select create video proxy, you can select and create many at once. The interesting thing is that the video proxy (.sfvp0) files are CFR, even if the timeline/source media is VFR. You can improve preview playback by reducing the playback from "Good" and "Best/full" if that's what it’s already set at.

Wow, thanks for that! Didn't know about the proxy files. It took 50 minutes to create a proxy for the 62 MP4s in question...but it made a HUGE difference! I can actually edit the CFR clips in Vegas now! Though I do need to turn the "Thumbnails to show in video events" to None, otherwise it won't keep up. I also created a separate set of proxies for the original MP4s from the phone...and it's even faster than before in the timeline and preview window (though I always had the Preview set to a very low setting...which is all I need for most of the bulk edits unless I'm keying a green screen out and then turn it up for a single frame, or a short clip)...and I can keep the Thumbnails set to show Head/Center/Tail...which is a little bit convenient.

It's possible that if you were happy to use the 2 lower preview settings, with proxies, that you could have got away without converting to CFR, the VFR files would only then be used when rendering.

Yes, well just to be clear, the purpose of me reaching out through this thread was not to complain about jitters in the *editing* stage. I'm trying to fix the *final rendered* video from having (those) jitters rendered in. As I put videos up on youtube, or play them from a TV box on a big screen, it's so frustrating to see tiny little jitters sprinkled throughout the final video that took a long time to make. I've even tried rendering each video clip from within VP using the MAGIX Intermediate settings (lossless compression, I believe)...and even though they're HUGE file sizes that result...and also they are converted to CFR, the newly created files still have those jitters built-in...and they show up even in VLC or other media players. With the slow machine I'm editing on, the preview window is so choppy you'd be surprised I can get anything done, but with the Shift+B pre-render option I'm able to get through the toughest spots even with multiple effects, tracking, reframing, keying out green, etc. And regardless of how painful the preview is, the final render is always smooth and high quality.

I guess what you were saying was that you thought if I used the VFR files (the originals from my smartphone) and rendered those to my finished file...that the jitters would be gone?--I wish that were the case! But the jitters (caused by the frame rate gaps) don't go unpunished by VP. I read somewhere that smartphones use less FPS when there is a lot of bright light and more FPS when the subject is darker, so a sweeping shot done on a phone that goes from very bright sources to less bright...will have bigger gaps in the frame rate.

Its a good idea to publish your machines specs in your user profile, that way if you had any other queries in the future then you don’t have to keep reposting them.

Once I have a dedicated (probably upgraded) computer for editing, I will do this. In the meantime, I share this Vegas license with my dad...he has a fast editing computer...but he's in Texas and I'm in California.

Thank you again...so much for your help and the time you've put into answering my questions.

Kind Regards

 

JN- wrote on 10/3/2020, 7:32 AM

@Richard-Bril “I read somewhere that smartphones use less FPS when there is a lot of bright light and more FPS when the subject is darker” I think it’s the other way around.

Before I downloaded your files, it sounded to me that it was simply the case that HB had applied a “levels” conversion to get it close to Studio Levels, recommended for finished files, and appears to be so. This is not what you need as you are going to edit them again. There’s nothing wrong with the HB clip, if you just apply a Levels VFX in VP and adjust the top two sliders to stretch the histogram from 0 to 255 it will have the increased contrast that the other two files have. But it would have been better to not have the levels conversion applied, it may be a setting you selected, or was automatically applied.

So the real issue you say is the jitter, which is I think most obvious when panning, otherwise i’m not sure what you mean. If its that then, and others by all means correct me, I think that its not necessarily because of vfr, rather too fast a pan. A high frame rate, say 60 fps + slower pans, can reduce this substantially in acquisition, but too late for that now.

If it was my footage I would simply edit the original VFR footage in vp17/18, once the vfr doesn’t cause a crash, and use proxies. Realistically, people pay far more attention to the content of a video than technical imperfections. I have used some terrible jittery panning clips from a full frame camera for my Render Quality tests, with larger sensors you need to go even slower, and the IBIS can add to the jitter.

I played the uhd clips on my FHD screen on my laptop and pan jitter wasn’t too bad, but when I played on my external QHD monitor it was far worse. If you are exporting final output to FHD and its viewed on less than QHD screens, i’m sure it will be as good as it can be. I exported the single original clip with vfr to fhd using vp17 and its ok on fhd screen.

If you use vp18, in project properties set Pixel Format to legacy, as the Mediainfo says its Limited range even though its really Full range. You could also change the “flag” to Full, in either the event or media properties when your project properties pixel format is set to full range. That way you can then edit in the VP18 default full range mode.

If you’re using vp17 you need to add a levels fx to bring them to about 16-235 in the histogram. Same applies to VP18 using Legacy. See Marcos pinned post on the new 8bit levels setup for vp18. Richard, the HB file was actually corrected for final output, so nothing wrong there.

The Levels flag, Colour Range in the HB file says its limited, correct.

The Levels flag, Colour Range in the "Batch" file says its Full, correct.

The Levels flag, Colour Range in the Original file says its limited, incorrect.

Best of luck.

Last changed by JN- on 10/3/2020, 12:27 PM, changed a total of 9 times.

---------------------------------------------

VFR2CFR, Variable frame rate to Constant frame rate link to zip here.

Copies Video Converts Audio to AAC, link to zip here.

Convert 2 Lossless, link to ZIP here.

Convert Odd 2 Even (frame size), link to ZIP here

Benchmarking Continued thread + link to zip here

Codec Render Quality tables zip

---------------------------------------------

PC ... Corsair case, own build ...

CPU .. i9 9900K, iGpu UHD 630

Memory .. 32GB DDR4

Graphics card .. MSI RTX 2080 ti

Graphics driver .. latest studio

PSU .. Corsair 850i

Mboard .. Asus Z390 Code

 

Laptop… XMG

i9-11900k, iGpu n/a

Memory 64GB DDR4

Graphics card … Laptop RTX 3080

JN- wrote on 10/3/2020, 9:09 AM

@Richard-Bril "THE PROBLEM* however with your CFR converted files is that when I pop them into VP, it slows things waaaaay down and makes play in the editing pane so choppy I can barely do anything, for some strange reason."

A guess here, not certain, but the playback capability can be determined by the internal IPB layout of the compressed video files, the more complex it is then the more work your CPU has to do. For example ALL-I, Intra files are easier to edit, and long GOP files, which have fewer I frames, requires more internal "translation" by VP, and so things slow down. What can balance this out a small bit is that ALL-I files are far larger and that can slow things down also.

This is the internal GOP layout of the 3 files ...

 

[ 01 Original (Note9).mp4 ] GOP length = [ 30 ] 

IPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPI

 

[ 02 Batch (19.5).mp4 ] GOP length = [ 71 ]

IBBBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBBBPBPI

 

[ 03 HandBrake (HQ).m4v ] GOP length = [ 10 ]

IPPPPPPPPPI

 

So, looking at the 02 Batch ... .mp4 file, for sure, more work needs to be done all the time in VP.

 

Last changed by JN- on 10/3/2020, 12:27 PM, changed a total of 4 times.

---------------------------------------------

VFR2CFR, Variable frame rate to Constant frame rate link to zip here.

Copies Video Converts Audio to AAC, link to zip here.

Convert 2 Lossless, link to ZIP here.

Convert Odd 2 Even (frame size), link to ZIP here

Benchmarking Continued thread + link to zip here

Codec Render Quality tables zip

---------------------------------------------

PC ... Corsair case, own build ...

CPU .. i9 9900K, iGpu UHD 630

Memory .. 32GB DDR4

Graphics card .. MSI RTX 2080 ti

Graphics driver .. latest studio

PSU .. Corsair 850i

Mboard .. Asus Z390 Code

 

Laptop… XMG

i9-11900k, iGpu n/a

Memory 64GB DDR4

Graphics card … Laptop RTX 3080