<< Since you grabbed these from the Miranda, you likely had the Nnovia generating its own T/C? >>

No, the Nnovia seems to be recording the timecode coming from the Miranda DVC800 (which is what is being recorded on the HDCAM tape) and not generating it's own. When I play the Nnovia box by itself, it displays the timecode from the Miranda/HDCAM source.

In Premiere Pro 1.5 I can see that timecode in the source window (not off the timeline) and therefore can log it manually, but this is only with the Microsoft AVI and not the Canopus AVI. I am looking for a more elegant solution to logging these tapes via Vegas 6 wherein I can build a list of sound bites from several tapes and then export them as a list and a window burned DVD.

Any chance this can be done?

First of all I need to be able to see the original source timecode in either the Trimmer window or off the timeline. Timeline numbers are of no use to me. Dropping the timecode filter onto the clip only seems to generate the timeline timecode, NOT the source tape timecode.

Dropping it on the files in the Media Pool/Project Media window will call on the file's timecode, vs the timeline timecode.

Not sure if it would work but try the new version of SCLive with it's tape Index function. You could also try CatDVPro.

<< Dropping it on the files in the Media Pool/Project Media window will call on the file's timecode, vs the timeline timecode >>

I haven't used Vegas that much and I'm a little confused as to how to do this. When I click on the tab for Effects to see the timecode effect, I lose the ability to see the clip bin and can only see the timeline - which does me no good to drop on. Please excuse my ignorance of this program, but exactly how can you drop this effect onto the Media Pool/Project Media based clip if you can't see it displayed to drop in on? Most NLE programs have a separate window for the Clip Bin and Effects.

You can seperate all of those windows. Move your cursor on the left side of the selected window and hold the mouse down while moving the window.

Dave T2

Sorry, I can see how to move the Tabs, and resize the window, but cannot see how to reveal the Project Media by resizing the Video FX window.

Pardon my utter exasperation and ignorance on this.

Select the TAB for the window you want to move or seperate.

Hover your mouse over the left side of that window (over the little frame area on the left side). Hold your mouse button down and move the window.

Dave T2

Sorry, figured it out by holding down the Shift key.

Now when I drag the Timecode SMPTE Non-Drop 29.97 effect over the orginal clip, I get the black NO GO circle and line icon. So my guess is that this is not going to work at all.

I am trying to do one of the most simple operations possible in an editing program.

I want to log my original camera tapes by the ORIGINAL timecode (not timeline timecode), build a selection of sound/picture bites reflecting that code and export a list for a future online and make a window burn DVD for approval. All without really editing at all, just dragging and dropping trimmed clips onto the timeline for export to file and DVD. Should be easy as pie ...

1. Select the media in the Media Pool/Project Media window.
2. Click the FX button in the Media Pool/Project Media window.
3. Select the Timecode filter/process.
4. Repeat as necessary.

This can also be accomplished via Scripts. (Tools>Scripts>Add timecode to All Media)

Please bear with me, and thank you for your patience.

<< 1. Select the media in the Media Pool/Project Media window.>>
I have reduced the bin so that there is ONE clip in the bin, nothing on the timeline - and it is highlighted.

<< 2. Click the FX button in the Media Pool/Project Media window.>>
<< 3. Select the Timecode filter/process.>>
I click the button, select Timecode from Media FX, then choose 29.97 NDF Preset. I assume since there is no OK button that one must then click the X to shut the box and apply the filter.

If I now play the clip in the Trimmer window, it does not display the timecode window, only displays clip time in small box next to Play/Rewind etc. buttons. If I double click on the clip in the Bin, it appears on the timeline, the timecode readout box is present and it reads the clip timeline times - NOT the clip's original timecode which is what I am after.

If I pull this same clip into Premiere Pro, I can read the original TC off the left Trim window but not on the timeline. Vegas is not even giving me that display - and it is supposed to be a much more robust and feature-laden program.

Is this asking for something never ever done before in the history of the Vegas NLE software????

I appreciate everyone's patience in this, but it is maddening to not be able to see the clip's original embedded timecode AT ALL in this program.

Is this asking for something never ever done before in the history of the Vegas NLE software????

Absolutely not. I've done it numerous times and never had any problems at all. The steps I follow are exactly what has been suggested to you.
Out of curiosity, are you using the latest version (6.0b)?

Mike

Well...the difference (Mike) is that zumadog is asking for it to display in the Trimmer. The Trimmer is unbuffered, and essentially a Source window, so no....you can't get it to display from the trimmer. I'd recommend adding the filter as suggested above, dropping the media on the timeline, and trimming or subclipping from there, do your workprint, and remove it when you're ready, using the script recommended earlier.

Just done 25 preview DVDs with burnt in source T/C, piece of pie.
Simpler way, in Media Pool right click and select Add Media FX, Select Sony TimeCode and select which type of T/C. Assuming your file has source TC you'll get the correct T/C. The EDL will also show you source T/C I think. But yes I think it'd be nice if the trimmer edited against source TC and not some arbitary TC that Vegas invents.
Bob.

My VX2000 shows me timecode, date and time of the video being taken when I play the DV tapes in it. It seems that all this information (including exposure) is written onto DV tapes, but getting Vegas to read and use them, well, it seems to be possible only in Dreamland.

Timecode IS there, as several of us have expressed. It's just a question of where you apply the filter, also as has been said. Having it be visible in the Trimmer would be nice, but not at the cost of having the stream be buffered and costing value in other areas of Vegas.
Date and Time are obviously not accessible in Vegas, although this would be a great feature for Vegas to have.
To recap, you can view Timeline/project timecode, or you can view original media timecode. Either one. Drop the T/C filter on the Preview Window or track to get a project timecode, insert it in the Media Pool/Project Media window to get original media timecode.
I think that makes 4 times...do I hear 5? :-)

Yes, I did what you said, and it worked. Not too intuitive, but at least it's there. But my cry for those features I mentioned still remains :-(

Drum role please -

Before we all jump at zumadog we must take the time to *read* what he is saying. I feel stupid for not picking up on this right away.

He says he wants to read a clips TC in Vegas. He says he can do it in Premiere with no problem.

So everyone goes on about how to do it in Vegas.

But wait!!! Something just jumped out at me in this last post -

If I pull this same clip into Premiere Pro, I can read the original TC off the left Trim window but not on the timeline. Vegas is not even giving me that display - and it is supposed to be a much more robust and feature-laden program.

Read it - If I pull this same clip into Premiere Pro.... AH HA!!!! Vegas can *not* read timecode from material that was captured with Premiere. Premiere can *not* read Timecode from stuff captured in Vegas. So if Premiere is reading the *same* clip's timecode that would mean it was captured in Premiere and would explain why with the *same* clip, when put on the Vegas timeline, the timecode readout box is present and it reads the clip timeline times - NOT the clip's original timecode .

In short Vegas can not do what zumadog wants it to do because the footage was not captured in Vegas. I have said this before but when it comes to Vegas - what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

So either stick with Premiere and import the project into After Effects and use the timecode filter there to give you a window burn. Or recapture all footage in Vegas *or*, as I had suggested in my other post, use SCLive as it will capture timecode that is readable in *both* Vegas and Premiere. Plus with it's tape index function you may be able to come close to what you said you wanted to do in the first place.

Also - my *guess* is that Premiere was used because of the following:

Poster said I did a live downconvert to a Nnovia 80gig harddrive connected from a Miranda DVC800 via firewire 6-pin cable, and now have AVI files done in both the Canopus and Microsoft AVI format. and that would, to me, rule out capture with Vegas right there. End of story. Not captured in Vegas, not readable timecode by Vegas. Doesn't really matter about Premiere or not.

But allow me to go on anyway - he has stated that he *CAN NOT* read source timecode in Vegas (I have so far been unable to display the original timecode recorded onto the files on either the timeline in Vegas 6, or in the trimmer window) but he can in Premiere. (In Premiere Pro 1.5 I can see that timecode in the source window...) So if the files on the hard drive are in the "Microsoft AVI format" and the "Canopus" format - once again, Vegas was not used. If you were to capture files in a "mini-dv" format with Premiere they would, by default, use the MS wrapper. (Speaking of Windows now, not Mac - in which case it would be QT based) If they were captured with a Canopus hardware setup via Premiere that would explain that part.

I did a live downconvert to a Nnovia 80gig harddrive connected from a Miranda DVC800.... to me means that the footage was converted on the fly to a mini-dv format and capture on a hard drive. I admit that to me the "Miranda DVC800" could be an external unit like the Firestore or a card based solution like the Pinnacle DV500...I do not know.


EDIT - Spelling and clarification

Geez,
talk about not reading what was said!
The media wasn't captured with either Vegas or Premier and yes he CAN read source TC in Vegas from said clips, just not the way he wants to. Premiere from what he says will display TC on the timeline, Vegas doesn't do that, then again unlike many systems Vegas can quite happily cope with media that has no TC.
Which isn't making any excuses for the way Vegas handles TC, it drives me nuts too. I ingest a DV clone of DB complete with source TC and now I want to create DVCAM clones of what was on the DB tapes. Should be a piece of cake but the only way I can see to do this is to do a deck to deck clone of the DB tapes, what a PIA.
IF as DSE says getting Vegas to handle TC the way we'd like it to involves too much overhead (and sorry but I don't follow that one at all) then surely it could be a setup option.
Bob.

Bob, I don't know that it couldn't be done, but the Explorer and Trimmer in Vegas are the only two places that playback/access to the media isn't buffered. To insert a filter there, it would have to be buffered, I'd think. (correct me Sony or someone if I'm wrong)
Losing that, would be problematic, I believe.

As far as the original post, these files weren't captured in Premiere or anywhere else, if I read it right the first time, he captured with the Nnovia, using the Miranda, and the source code came from the generator in the Miranda. He could have also gotten code from the Nnovia, which is what I do with my Nnovia's. Either way, the source T/C is there.

1- As it's been mentioned 5 times already, make sure you apply the timecode FX at the media FX level.

In vegas, there's different places where you can put FX:
video preview
track
event
media

The timecode FX will only read original timecode when it is applied at the media level. Spot already gave instructions to do this.

If you drop the clip into the timeline, right click the click and select Media FX. The filter chooser window now pops up and you can select Sony Timecode and hit ok.

(Sorry for repeating if you got this already)

2- If you are playing clips off the timeline (not the trimmer), FX can be disabled. In the video preview window, click on the moon with the half blue/white icon. It should be up.

3- I believe the trimmer does show original timecode if you look at the numbers in the TRIMMER window at the top.

Unlike our own capture app, DV Rack or Scenalyzer, the Miranda converter is apparently writing timecode in a chunk of the file that Vegas does not use for storing timecode. This will cause serious problems for you if you are offlining obviously- bad TC will make your lists/edls 100% unusable in any online room.

Option 1: get a new set of dubs made to DV and capture those using (preferably) Vegas, Scenalyzer or DV Rack.

Option 2: Rent a JH3 with 1394 out and capture using (preferably) Vegas, Scenalyzer or DV Rack.

Painful but cheap option 3: Render out your clips in Premiere or whatever with a TC window burn IN THE FRAME and use those files for editing. You can, in Vegas manually set the TC per clip in media properties, drop or non-drop also and if everything is set up correctly you can generate a solid EDL. Beware: Even this could could cause problems if the stamping app is not writing the timecode correctly ( as in: is it assuming drop even though the source is NDF? Do you KNOW the timecode stamping app's timecode matches the original HDCAM tapes?)

This is less applicable to you if you are working in HD 60i but you are still encouraged to check out our 24p workflow whitepaper for using downconverts from Cinealta, much still applies:

http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/download/step2.asp?DID=513

So, you're suggestingthe Miranda code isn't accessible from Vegas due to the location it writes the T/C? I was unaware of this issue, not having used it. The Nnovia-generated T/C works just fine on the A2D unit, I've used this plenty of times.