So then...

Ben  wrote on 8/17/2007, 7:09 PM
Vegas Pro 8 has been announced. Yes that's apparently the name... takes us back to the good old days when it was an audio app. Audio I hear Sony cry, what's that? :)

So the question is, are we going to see any new audio features whatsoever? Or fixes to long-standing issues? Is Vegas finally going to catch up with the rest of the DAW world? I really doubt it somehow, though would love to be proved wrong.



Geoff_Wood wrote on 8/17/2007, 7:48 PM
What where ?

Ben  wrote on 8/18/2007, 7:45 AM
A very quick Google reveals this:

None of which inspires confidence, sadly.

barleycorn wrote on 8/18/2007, 8:10 AM
See Vegas Pro 8:

'New Mixing Console: You asked - we delivered. The new mixing console utilizes a traditional mixing board set up to allow users to visually see all audio signals in a particular project.'

Steven Myers wrote on 8/18/2007, 2:19 PM
> New Mixing Console: You asked - we delivered.

This would be an indication that development is not headed in a "pro" audio direction.
adowrx wrote on 8/18/2007, 9:28 PM
Subject: RE: So then...
Reply by: tididit
Date: 8/18/2007 5:19:30 PM

> New Mixing Console: You asked - we delivered.

This would be an indication that development is not headed in a "pro" audio direction

I thought that happened when buss panning was broken?? Or am I missing something?
Geoff_Wood wrote on 8/20/2007, 1:03 AM
The only people who 'asked' were those who didn't understand Vegas and needed the security of something that looked like a hardware mixer.

What people DO want is folder tracks !

rraud wrote on 8/20/2007, 9:31 AM
'New Mixing Console: You asked - we delivered."
Who asked for it???
I asked for OMF support and BWF write capability, in addition to some other "normal pro audio and audio-for-video functions"... they never seemed to listen to me, Geoff or other pro-users I know of.
drew_ wrote on 8/20/2007, 12:37 PM
I stopped asking for audio functions years ago, so they're obviously not referring to me either.

As always the new video stuff (like multi-camera editing) looks genuinely impressive - Vegas really is excellent as a video production tool and I can't fault it there.

But for the Vegas audio feature list right now my only suggestion would be... to stop using the word "unrivalled".

I'd have asked for sends from busses and a return to the old bus/pan paradigm instead of spending time duplicating the horizontal faders vertically, but then I would just be repeating old feature requests which I know people reading this have made.. and anyway.. you may get those in Vegas Pro 9.

After all... you did ask!
pwppch wrote on 8/20/2007, 10:57 PM
>>This would be an indication that development is not headed in a "pro" audio direction. <<


PTools, Cubase, Nuendo, SONAR, etc,etc all have mixing console views.

Are these tools not in a "pro" audio direction?

If not, then what is a "pro" audio application?


pwppch wrote on 8/20/2007, 11:00 PM
>>Who asked for it???

Since you asked....

While I cannot answer by name, I can say more people asked for it than asked for OMF and BWF support. Not even close.


Ben  wrote on 8/21/2007, 3:02 AM
Wow, I don't want to start a fight here Peter, but for many years on these boards I've read you defend the old Vegas 'mixer' paradigm, arguing against Vegas having a more standard vertical mixer. But I'll think you'll find of the Vegas audio users currently left, not many of us are bothered with having a vertical mixer. I'm pretty sure most of these requests would have come from our great friends in the video community [rolls eyes].

Well, I'm all for a new mixer if it comes with long-needed extended functionality, like sends from busses, a fix to the pan>bus problem and things like fader ganging, track groups and folder tracks. Are we going to see this stuff Peter? Or just the current way of doing things duplicated and represented, erm, the other way around?

Steven Myers wrote on 8/21/2007, 4:22 AM
> Why?
PTools, Cubase, Nuendo, SONAR, etc,etc all have mixing console views. <

Seem very late in the game to be spending development resources on something that provides only:
1. entertainment for gamer types
2. an intellectual bridge for those who can't jump from knobs and faders to envelopes.

These boards contain long lists of suggestions that affect functionality (e.g., buses, cross-platform formats). Cartoon hardware does not.
Vocalpoint wrote on 8/21/2007, 7:15 AM

Easy there bud. "Cartoon" hardware? Nuendo's audio mixer view completely buries Vegas in every respect. No contest.

I am one of those who asked for a standard mixer views years ago. Maybe too little too late but nice to see they finally addressed it.

rraud wrote on 8/21/2007, 10:53 AM
Peter, I'm not complaining about having the vertical mixer, I'm sure it will be a useful feature.
Many Avid & FCP editors are not comfortable using the AAF format (at least here in NYC) so I can't use it. .And I can actually live without internal OMF using a third party converter app. However being able to write BWF files would make life easier and cheaper for everyone. A few times I've had to rent a Digibeta or DVCAM machine to return a TC mix to a sync paranoid editor.
FWIW, I skipped V-7 and bought Sonar, I have issues with that too and prefer the GUI interface in Vegas, so it appears I will be upgrading upon the new release.
Cheers, Rick
pwppch wrote on 8/21/2007, 11:15 AM
Well everyone is entitled to an opinion.

I see no point in discussing things with you.

Goji wrote on 8/21/2007, 3:58 PM
First time visitor here . . . from the Vegas forum.

I have no history . . . but WOW, that last comment sure sounded arrogant . . . and ceertainly not what I'd hope for or expect from a company interested AT ALL in customer service.

Hoping for better times and more conducive presence

Vegas user since V3
BradlyMusic wrote on 8/21/2007, 4:00 PM
Here's a feature that I'm actually interested in for audio, as strange as it may sound.

"Huge enhancement to our titling capabilities. You can create custom titles, animated texts, unique credit rolls and much, much more."

I often make DVD audio discs with Vegas. Well, it's not a true DVD Audio disc, but it's a 5.1 Dolby Digital surround mix DVD Video disc. So often I have been using the current Vegas video titling tools in regards to adding TXT onto a video track. So when I skip from audio track to audio track on a DVD, I have video displayed with the Title of the track displayed on the screen. I know a lot of the video folks have been complaining about the quality of the Vegas text generators.....and as mainly an audio user I have to agree. Even with the dumb little use that I use of putting the Song titles on a video monitor, the text looks pretty bad.

It sounds like I can finally have crisp and clear song titles on my 5.1 DVDs now and make them do crazy things while the song is playing. Yippy......I'll run right out and pick me up a copy of Vegas 8. :-(

Really though, if you're waiting for Vegas to make any significant audio improvements your odds are probably better to see these features show up in Windows Media Player before Vegas.

Now if Sony can eventually get around to putting the rest of the Vegas audio functions into Acid Pro, then I'ld be pretty happy. Acid currently is just too frustrating for me after using Vegas for audio and stumbling across missing functions in Acid compared to Vegas. I can't believe I have to wait a full version upgrade just for a "hope" that Acid will carry over an event selection when I select "Open in Sound Forge". I mean even Sonar does this, but some how Sony leaves this cross functionality out between their own 2 apps? Frigging hilarious.
pwppch wrote on 8/21/2007, 5:29 PM
Arrogant how? I do this on my spare time. I am here to help, not be ridiculed.

PeterWright wrote on 8/22/2007, 1:20 AM
Please don't disappear Peter, because of a comment from one who doesn't know you.

We'll really appreciate your presence when V8P hits the deck.
pwppch wrote on 8/22/2007, 11:28 AM
Nope, not going anywhere.

I enjoy discussing our stuff too much and want to see it improved as much as possible.

Just venting a bit...

farss wrote on 8/22/2007, 4:31 PM
Everyone's entitled to the occasional dummy spit including the users.

The question of who it is that's driving where Vegas is headed seems to me to be a pretty important one.

Of course there'll be more people asking for eye candy than things like OMF and BWF, I'd wager that the majority of Vegas users wouldn't even know what they are. Thing is though in this game people buy product not because of what they can do do with it but for what they'd like to think they can do with it and who drives that are the heavy hitters in the industry. Those 0.1% of your users, the ones using the apps in the front lines, have a huge influence over the rest of the potential user base, you need look no further than the success of FCP to see how this works.
Vegas is now arguably more of a video app than audio but it does seem strange that there's scant consideration given to the audio tools that are used daily in video and film production.

BradlyMusic wrote on 8/22/2007, 8:35 PM
Good point Bob. Don't worry though. As soon as Digidesign combines the functionality of Pro Tools and Avid, then Sony will start paying attention to the audio side of Vegas once again.

I think if we're going to be using any of the Sony suite of software be it for Video, Audio or both that we just need to realize that ever since Sony has taken control of this ship that the entire suite of SMS development has been more of a reactive development cycle than that of a pro-active development that it once was.

Think about it....what has really come out from SMS that you have been truly amazed at by it's inovation since Sony bought Sonic Foundry? Cinescore? Give me a break... When I think of these products now, for the longest time, the words "Inovative, forward thinking, professional workflow tools." has not come to mind. Instead I think more along the lines of "Cheap, Chinese knock offs." I mean that's what a lot of Chinese companies do right? They copy what others have developed and offer their products at a lower price point. If it doesn't have the latest and greatest functionality or if it doesn't work properly, then the Chinese developers/manufacturers don't care. They just expect you to buy the next model where you hope that it works out better for you and since it's cheaper than the other more robust products we don't mind buying the next model since we paid half price for the previous model compared to the better and more expensive competitive brand models.

Sony Vegas, Acid, Sound Forge, Cinescore, DVD Architect...etc=Cheap Chinese knock offs.

FCP, Avid, Protools, Adobe Premiere, Audition, Nuendo, Wavelab= Foreward thinking developments at a higher price point.

If we where talking about DVD players/recorders or any other electronics here, instead of software tools, we would just be saying, "Oh get what you pay for." If I want a good quality DVD Player/Recorder I spend the extra money and buy a Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic, Samsung...etc. If I want something that works very similar but has no warranty, expect no or slow firmware updates when things don't work properly and maybe even has a better user interface, then I buy a Daewoo, Durabrand, or Cybertronics.

You guys just need to realize, that the Sony Creative Software line of products is the Durabrand of software media tools. Then you'll be very happy with not having all the latest bells and whistles and appreciate the new added eye candy in the next model release.

When I think of a new Vegas release and these pre release press announcements, this is more of what I think of.
PeterWright wrote on 8/23/2007, 3:00 AM
I think the Chinese tag is more than a little unfair - how many of the other NLEs mentioned have Scripting, or Takes, or uninterrupted loop playback whilst settings or FX are changed, or many other features or functionality that Vegas has - that's not playing catch up.
farss wrote on 8/23/2007, 3:40 PM
The comparison might be a little unfair, I don't think it's by design.
However all the things that you've mentioned while certainly nice to have when Vegas doesn't do what it must do in your environment they are meaningless.
Conversely if Vegas had the core functionality (such as OMF) AND those features THEN they mean something. No one is going to forego the things that they must have to get the job done just to gain something that's only nice to have.

Again this goes to the issue of just who the users are that are asking for features. You'll not get anyone asking for things like OMF or even Sony's own DSD because until they're in place they will not even be considering using Vegas. It'd be much better if those users were here, with the tools that they must have and then they were asking for Takes and Looping