Some MOV files not opening on new system

RogerS wrote on 4/1/2021, 7:13 AM

Please specify which mov files you are working with exactly, it makes a difference. You can use Media Info to paste in details for one or more files.
https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo

Many .mov files will open without doing anything as they are just AVC (h.264) in a mov wrapper and Vegas can read them natively. You might not have had such files in the past.

Jessariah67 wrote on 4/1/2021, 7:26 AM

Again, without downloading anything QT or checking the Deprecated Features...

This WON'T open (Old stock video):
Complete name : E:\Media\VIDEO\Video FX\Motion BGs\Floating Lights.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 111 MiB
Duration : 16 s 0 ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 58.4 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2009-04-20 22:37:34
Tagged date : UTC 2009-04-20 23:14:38
Writing library : Apple QuickTime

The WON'T open (recent creation in After Effects w/Alpha):
Complete name : H:\ACAP\Micro Courses\23-TopTenFreshmanYearIssues\Video01\ae renders\1-open.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 95.1 MiB
Duration : 26 s 226 ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 30.4 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2021-03-30 11:21:40
Tagged date : UTC 2021-03-30 11:21:58
Writing library : Apple QuickTime
TIM : 00;00;00;00
TSC : 2997
TSZ : 100

This WILL open (Recent file created in Vegas):
Complete name : E:\Media\VIDEO\ChinimbleLore-ID\VidLogo-4K-URL.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 42.5 MiB
Duration : 8 s 7 ms
Overall bit rate : 44.5 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2020-06-01 15:12:27
Tagged date : UTC 2020-06-01 15:12:28
Writing library : Apple QuickTime

RogerS wrote on 4/1/2021, 7:45 AM

Can you post the full info for each? This doesn't get into the type of file (doesn't even have resolution or frame rate) Please see the first image here for what to copy:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/faq-how-to-post-mediainfo-and-vegas-pro-file-properties--104561/

Jessariah67 wrote on 4/1/2021, 8:52 AM

Will NOT open:
General
Complete name : E:\Media\VIDEO\Video FX\Motion BGs\Floating Lights.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 111 MiB
Duration : 16 s 0 ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 58.4 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2009-04-20 22:37:34
Tagged date : UTC 2009-04-20 23:14:38
Writing library : Apple QuickTime

Video
ID : 1
Format : JPEG
Codec ID : jpeg
Duration : 16 s 0 ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 58.4 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 30.000 FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 8 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.939
Stream size : 111 MiB (100%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2009-04-20 22:37:35
Tagged date : UTC 2009-04-20 23:14:38

Will NOT open:
General
Complete name : H:\ACAP\Micro Courses\23-TopTenFreshmanYearIssues\Video01\ae renders\2-expectations.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 174 MiB
Duration : 39 s 273 ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 37.2 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2021-03-30 11:21:58
Tagged date : UTC 2021-03-30 11:22:25
Writing library : Apple QuickTime
TIM : 00;00;00;00
TSC : 2997
TSZ : 100

Video
ID : 1
Format : RLE
Format/Info : Run-length encoding
Codec ID : rle
Duration : 39 s 273 ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 35.4 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space : RGBA
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.570
Stream size : 166 MiB (95%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2021-03-30 11:21:58
Tagged date : UTC 2021-03-30 11:21:58
Menus : 0

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : sowt
Duration : 39 s 273 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 7.19 MiB (4%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2021-03-30 11:21:58
Tagged date : UTC 2021-03-30 11:21:58
Menus : 0

Other
ID : 3
Type : Time code
Format : QuickTime TC
Duration : 39 s 273 ms
Frame rate : 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00;00
Time code, striped : Yes
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2021-03-30 11:21:58
Tagged date : UTC 2021-03-30 11:21:58

WLL open:
General
Complete name : E:\Media\VIDEO\ChinimbleLore-ID\VidLogo-4K-URL.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt 2005.03 (qt )
File size : 42.5 MiB
Duration : 8 s 7 ms
Overall bit rate : 44.5 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2020-06-01 15:12:27
Tagged date : UTC 2020-06-01 15:12:28
Writing library : Apple QuickTime

Video
ID : 2
Format : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile : Advanced Simple@L3
Format settings : BVOP
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, QPel : No
Format settings, GMC : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix : Default (H.263)
Codec ID : mp4v-20
Duration : 8 s 7 ms
Bit rate : 43.1 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.217
Stream size : 41.2 MiB (97%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2020-06-01 15:10:56
Tagged date : UTC 2020-06-01 15:12:28
Transfer characteristics : BT.601
Matrix coefficients : BT.601

Audio
ID : 1
Format : PCM
Format settings : Little / Signed
Codec ID : sowt
Duration : 8 s 7 ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 411.2 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 kHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.35 MiB (3%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2020-06-01 15:10:56
Tagged date : UTC 2020-06-01 15:12:28

RogerS wrote on 4/1/2021, 10:09 PM

Thanks for the details.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can comment but these aren't mov varieties I have worked with. The first is jpeg in a mov wrapper (different than Motion Jpeg as far as I know). I do think they likely require Quicktime for decoding, which isn't ideal.

If there is a possibility of re-exporting from After Effects you could try ProRes or MagicYUV https://www.magicyuv.com/ both of which can do 8 and 10 bit files, alpha channels and are supported in Vegas without needing to enable Quicktime and thus being stuck with the memory limits of its 32-bit architecture.

Software like ffmpeg can likely convert these files as well though I haven't worked with it.

Jessariah67 wrote on 4/1/2021, 10:29 PM

Magic YUV isn't an option under Quicktime in After Effects, but ProRes is. Magic YUV IS an option with AVI.

I've never quite grasped the whole wrapper/codec/etc. thing. So, it's not the MOV extension, but the format and codec differences? I'll play around with this, but it looks like I'd be better off doing MOV files with ProRes or AVI files with Magic YUV?

Again - sorry if I sound completely dumb. Appreciate all the help and insight you guys are throwing my way!

RogerS wrote on 4/1/2021, 11:07 PM

Just to clarify, did you install MagicYUV 2.3 (latest and greatest with 10-bit support)? Plug-ins are needed for Adobe. MagicYUV isn't free software but I found the minimal cost to be justified. It is fast for decoding and encoding and mathematically losses. The container is avi.

MOV and AVI and MP4 are containers for different types of codecs, with different rules for what is allowable. You can put everything from still images to ProRes intermediates and h.264 into a mov container. You could also take the same data and put it in a somewhat different in AVI or MP4, etc. So you're not bound by the source files.

The problem is reading the files in Vegas. The Quicktime plugin needed to actually decode some mov files was abandoned by Apple years ago and Vegas hasn't yet replaced it with a more modern version. This does NOT affect some mov formats like h.264/AVC or ProRes as Vegas has native decoders for them (the ProRes one is brand new to 18.482 and works well). MagicYUV comes with its own decoder plugin for Vegas "Magicyuvplug"

So for handoffs between After Effects and Vegas I would highly encourage you to find a format that doesn't rely on 32-bit Quicktime, especially if you have had trouble with it in the past. ProRes and MagicYUV are two good ones I can vouch for. For something like jpeg you could even just output jpegs, tiffs or pngs and import a sequence of still frames into Vegas.

Jessariah67 wrote on 4/2/2021, 7:08 AM

That is so helpful, Roger, thanks! I've been at this for 20 years now, and whether it wasn't as complicated "back in the day," or it just never came up with what I do, I've never had to deal with it at this level. But I get it now (at least on a very fundamental level).

I'm pretty sure I have the latest MagicYUV, since I downloaded it for my new system just a week ago, but I'll check to be sure. I'll play around and figure out which works best. I certainly don't want to hinder myself with media that is stuck in 32bit - though my new system is a two-gen boost in both GPU and CPU, so I'm already rendering about 2.5X the speed of my previous machine.

I work with a lot of royalty free & client-provided media, so I can't always control what I'm handling. But I certainly can control what I'm creating myself, and this shed a lot of light on things for me. Thanks again!

RogerS wrote on 4/2/2021, 7:43 AM

Happy to help. If you have MagicYUV from a week ago you're good- it was updated months ago. In some ways it's easier than it used to be (don't have to transcode everything anymore for performance), in some ways not- lots of arcane legacy codecs that don't work as well as they used to. If you get stuck, come back as some of the other users created scripts and tools for handling challenging media. Enjoy!

Jessariah67 wrote on 4/5/2021, 1:27 PM

Just wanted to follow-up...

Went into After Effects and tweaked settings for Quicktime. MOV ProRes files are smaller, render faster in After Effects to create, seem to auto-detect the alpha in VP18, and playback smoother. Haven't tested render times in Vegas, but I'm guessing they will render faster as well.

Thanks again for all the help & insight!