Carl Edwards wrote:
>>See, I'm not crazy. Yet another has asked how to save only
>>the wav files they are using.

Nope. Never said you were.

Many others have asked for this and I have responded.

>>The ability to save all the
>>wav files in a project is TOTALLY USELESS(I already have
>>those files, and windows explorer does a fine job of moving
>>things). Why do we need to keep copies of things that we
>>did only to comp them or to compare them with others. Once
>>the decision is made we need to take all the active wav
>>files save them to a folder so we can clean up the stuff we
>>don't need.

I disagree that it is totatly useless. Many use this feature. It is
not optimal. You may feel that you have explained to me what you
want. You still have not defined what you want "saved" vs what we do
save.

Save As to a new project file is not a mixing operation in Vegas. It
sounds like you want a Save As project that will mix current media to
new media. If so, you have not explained how you expect this mix to
occur.

Perhaps an example would help clarify what you want or don't want.

Simple Example project:

- 3 tracks.
- Track one is made up of 4 files. The track has 4 events. Event 1
represents file 1. Event 2 represents the first 20 seconds of file 2.
Event 3 represents the last 10 seconds of file 3. Event 4 represents
the entire file 4.
- Track 2 has 5 files. Track 2 has 3 events. Event 1 represents the
middle 10 seconds of file 1. Event 2 has two takes. Take 1 is file2
and take 1 is file 3. Take 1 is active. Event 3 has 2 takes. Take 1
is the first 30 seconds of file 4. Take 2 represents all of file 5.
Take 2 is active.
- Track 3: One file, one event. The event represents the entire file.
This file is Mono.
- All files on tracks 1 and 2 are stereo wave.
- Track 1 has compression and EQ setup.
- Track 2 has EQ set up.
- Track 3 has EQ setup
- Track 1 has volume envelopes
- Track 2 has Pan envelopes
- Track 1 has its track volume set to -3db
- Track 2 is panned 50% to the left.
- Track 3 is panned hard right.
- There is one main bus. It is set to -3dB
- There is one Assignable FX set up. Track 3 is set to send a -12db
signal to this FX.

A current Save As with Copy Media would save a project file (veg)
that stores all of these settings, and then also copy all the files
(10) to the same directory. After this is done, you could then safely
delete the original files and have everything in one place.


What do you want when you save this as you desire?

How many files are saved?

How do the mix settings as described fit translate?


>>Plus, the ability to mix a comped track to a mono track would be
>>just beautiful.

- How/where is the mix to mono integrated?
- What are the results of this mix to mono?
- How do you want to tell Vegas to do this? Single step? Multiple
steps?
- With or with out Track processing? If the media is a mix of mono
and stereo files, how do we mix?
- How are effects, enveloped, cross fades, etc dealt with in this
save?
- How is Vegas told that tracks 1, 3,6 and 7 should have this done,
but tracks 2,4, 5, and 8 should not have this done?

I don't see this as being either intuative operation. Do you want
this "process to new track" to replace the existing track and all of
the files that are being used by this new file, reseting all
envelopes to nominal? Apply this function to Track 2 in the above
example project. This might make it clearer for me.

>>Surely SF can see a use for this feature. We're
>>only asking you to make our lives a little easier.

I have never - nor has anybody else from SF - ever said this would
not be useful.

>>In an earlier post I thought I saw a little
>>fear that we might not finish our projects with Vegas, but
>>without basic features we may decide not to start them with
>>it either.

No fear, I assure you. Yes there are short commings in Vegas - many
more than just media management. Some we know about, some we probably
don't.

If Vegas does not meet your requirements, then by all means tell us.
If you don't believe that we are responding to you in a timely
manner, then I am sorry. Did you expect us to code, test, and release
this in a week? Month? 3 months? I understand that it is hindering
you, but what are your expectations?

If another tool does what you want, then use the tool that does what
you want. I would prefer if it was one of our tools. This is exactly
why we offer a fully functional version of Vegas that will let you
discover these short commings and then decide whether Vegas will do
what you need.

All the threats - implied or straight at us - of retribution, loss of
sales, bad press, etc to Sonic Foundry for not having a specific
feature will not make it happen faster. Really. (Wont make it happen
any slower.) Things happen for a lot of reasons. I assure you threats
don't make any difference, one way or the other.

>>Wouldn't it be a better statemnt for us to track
>>a project, save all the tracks,(and the wav files the make
>>them) put them on a cd, take the cd to a studio and have
>>the people there like the fact that used Vegas to track and
>>recomend it to their people for tracking purposes?

To be honest, Vegas was never intendend to be a tracking tool. We can
do it, but it is far from our standout feature. Some aspects of
recording in Vegas are really powerfull - punch in/out, takes, loops,
etc. Some are very simple and can be combersome if you use Vegas as
a "tape recorder."

Vegas really intends to follow a different paradigm than the tape
recorder with a mixer. There is a _huge_ user base that has never
seen a multitrack tape recorder or layed hands on a mixer. Vegas was
designed with the intent and understanding of this portion of our end
user base. I think the merge between old paradigm and new technology
was done very effectively in Vegas. Our paradigm is easy for new
users and is straight forward and direct for experianced studio guys
to adopt. In fact we have had nothing but rave reviews on this very
aspect of Vegas. Easy and powerful. We hit our mark IMHO.

The recording features that we offer in Vegas compliment and are part
of the overall feature set and target user based of Vegas. Vegas is a
non-linear audio editor first and foremost. Vegas could exist with
our recording features, though this would limit its target audiance.
Many of our users don't even use the recording features of Vegas.
They have media that they need to assemble.

Vegas 1.0 cannot be everything to everbody. We had to make design
choices and continue to do so. We believe we offer the best current
set of features for our target audiance. To be a jack at all trades
and a master of none would have made Vegas a mess. We had to do what
we believed to be the important things for 1.0.

We want to be good - the best - at all things, whether this is
editing, recording, mixing, or rendering to delivery media. We work
toward this everday. We get tons of feedback. We listen to it all. We
cannot act on it all. We have to make choices that will impact the
largest group of end users.


Peter

I hate to jump into the Carl Edwards rant thread, but here goes.

I have been using Vegas since it's inception and have absolutely no
problem cleaning up my projects and removing unused .wav files.
Is there a magic shiny redbutton that you push to make it happen? NO
Is there an amazingly simple way to do it that takes little time? YES

Carl, I think that part of your problem has been brought to light
in your statement below, and I quote:

"Plus, the ability to mix a comped track to a mono track would be
just beautiful."

This feature exists and I USE IT NEARLY EVERYDAY to remove unwanted
wave files and clean up my projects.

1. Record multiple takes of say, vocals, with nice track names like
"Song 1 Lead Vocals"
2. Comp a "keeper" track from the originals on a new track
named something like, "Song 1 Lead Vocals comped"
3. Now, solo the comped track, turn off all effects, make sure
all the track FX are off (unless you want them in the mono
comp) and set the track volume to 0 dB.
4. Type CTRL-M and look at the dialog box. On the template field
select Mono, 44100, 16-bit (or whatever other mono type you
want) and save the new wave file as whatever you want.
5. Viola, you now have a mono single wave file that is your comped
track. It's new, it's clean, it's small and it doesn't
reference the original tracks at all. Sweet.
6. NOOOOWWWW, remove the original vocal take tracks and the
manually comped track from the project (hey, cause you want
to remove those old wave files and you now have a new mono
comped track anyway!) and load the new MONO comped vocal track.
7. Save your new cleaned Vegas project file.
8. Now here's the really hard part ;) go to the folder that
you specified as the recording folder for the project and
REMOVE ANY FILE THAT HAS "Song 1 Lead Vocals" as part of the
title. Wow, that was easy! And since you removed the original
tracks from the Vegas project, Vegas won't complain that you've
removed the files cause IT DOESN'T USE THEM ANYMORE!
9. Is this the magic shiny red button that you want to magically
do it for you? No.
Is this easy? Yes.
Would YOU rather manually remove important tracks or would you
rather let Vegas do it for you? Me, I'll risk the fatigue this
method takes ;) and
make sure that I remove exactly what I want (not that I don't
trust Vegas at all, but you never know.)



Carl Edwards wrote:
>>See, I'm not crazy. Yet another has asked how to save only
>>the wav files they are using. The ability to save all the
>>wav files in a project is TOTALLY USELESS(I already have
>>those files, and windows explorer does a fine job of moving
>>things). Why do we need to keep copies of things that we
>>did only to comp them or to compare them with others. Once
>>the decision is made we need to take all the active wav
>>files save them to a folder so we can clean up the stuff we
>>don't need. Surely SF can see a use for this feature. We're
>>only asking you to make our lives a little easier. Plus,
>>the ability to mix a comped track to a mono track would be
>>just beautiful. In an earlier post I thought I saw a little
>>fear that we might not finish our projects with Vegas, but
>>without basic features we may decide not to start them with
>>it either. Wouldn't it be a better statemnt for us to track
>>a project, save all the tracks,(and the wav files the make
>>them) put them on a cd, take the cd to a studio and have
>>the people there like the fact that used Vegas to track and
>>recomend it to their people for tracking purposes? Ps this
>>what happens when you try to explain the same thing in 50
>>different ways. :0

I hate to jump into the Carl Edwards rant thread, but here goes.

I have been using Vegas since it's inception and have absolutely no
problem cleaning up my projects and removing unused .wav files.
Is there a magic shiny redbutton that you push to make it happen? NO
Is there an amazingly simple way to do it that takes little time? YES

Carl, I think that part of your problem has been brought to light
in your statement below, and I quote:

"Plus, the ability to mix a comped track to a mono track would be
just beautiful."

This feature exists and I USE IT NEARLY EVERYDAY to remove unwanted
wave files and clean up my projects.

1. Record multiple takes of say, vocals, with nice track names like
"Song 1 Lead Vocals"
2. Comp a "keeper" track from the originals on a new track
named something like, "Song 1 Lead Vocals comped"
3. Now, solo the comped track, turn off all effects, make sure
all the track FX are off (unless you want them in the mono
comp) and set the track volume to 0 dB.
4. Type CTRL-M and look at the dialog box. On the template field
select Mono, 44100, 16-bit (or whatever other mono type you
want) and save the new wave file as whatever you want.
5. Viola, you now have a mono single wave file that is your comped
track. It's new, it's clean, it's small and it doesn't
reference the original tracks at all. Sweet.
6. NOOOOWWWW, remove the original vocal take tracks and the
manually comped track from the project (hey, cause you want
to remove those old wave files and you now have a new mono
comped track anyway!) and load the new MONO comped vocal track.
7. Save your new cleaned Vegas project file.
8. Now here's the really hard part ;) go to the folder that
you specified as the recording folder for the project and
REMOVE ANY FILE THAT HAS "Song 1 Lead Vocals" as part of the
title. Wow, that was easy! And since you removed the original
tracks from the Vegas project, Vegas won't complain that you've
removed the files cause IT DOESN'T USE THEM ANYMORE!
9. Is this the magic shiny red button that you want to magically
do it for you? No.
Is this easy? Yes.
Would YOU rather manually remove important tracks or would you
rather let Vegas do it for you? Me, I'll risk the fatigue this
method takes ;) and make sure that I remove exactly what I want
(not that I don't trust Vegas at all, but you never know.)

Carl: Boy I hope this helps you, I really do.

BGC

Carl Edwards wrote:
>>See, I'm not crazy. Yet another has asked how to save only
>>the wav files they are using. The ability to save all the
>>wav files in a project is TOTALLY USELESS(I already have
>>those files, and windows explorer does a fine job of moving
>>things). Why do we need to keep copies of things that we
>>did only to comp them or to compare them with others. Once
>>the decision is made we need to take all the active wav
>>files save them to a folder so we can clean up the stuff we
>>don't need. Surely SF can see a use for this feature. We're
>>only asking you to make our lives a little easier. Plus,
>>the ability to mix a comped track to a mono track would be
>>just beautiful. In an earlier post I thought I saw a little
>>fear that we might not finish our projects with Vegas, but
>>without basic features we may decide not to start them with
>>it either. Wouldn't it be a better statemnt for us to track
>>a project, save all the tracks,(and the wav files the make
>>them) put them on a cd, take the cd to a studio and have
>>the people there like the fact that used Vegas to track and
>>recomend it to their people for tracking purposes? Ps this
>>what happens when you try to explain the same thing in 50
>>different ways. :0

Well, that was a wonderful explantion. I wish the manual explained
things the way you do. Thanks.

Brett Crockett wrote:
>>I hate to jump into the Carl Edwards rant thread, but here goes.
>>
>>I have been using Vegas since it's inception and have absolutely no
>>problem cleaning up my projects and removing unused .wav files.
>>Is there a magic shiny redbutton that you push to make it happen?
NO
>>Is there an amazingly simple way to do it that takes little time?
YES
>>
>>Carl, I think that part of your problem has been brought to light
>>in your statement below, and I quote:
>>
>>"Plus, the ability to mix a comped track to a mono track would be
>>just beautiful."
>>
>>This feature exists and I USE IT NEARLY EVERYDAY to remove unwanted
>>wave files and clean up my projects.
>>
>>1. Record multiple takes of say, vocals, with nice track names like
>> "Song 1 Lead Vocals"
>>2. Comp a "keeper" track from the originals on a new track
>> named something like, "Song 1 Lead Vocals comped"
>>3. Now, solo the comped track, turn off all effects, make sure
>> all the track FX are off (unless you want them in the mono
>> comp) and set the track volume to 0 dB.
>>4. Type CTRL-M and look at the dialog box. On the template field
>> select Mono, 44100, 16-bit (or whatever other mono type you
>> want) and save the new wave file as whatever you want.
>>5. Viola, you now have a mono single wave file that is your comped
>> track. It's new, it's clean, it's small and it doesn't
>> reference the original tracks at all. Sweet.
>>6. NOOOOWWWW, remove the original vocal take tracks and the
>> manually comped track from the project (hey, cause you want
>> to remove those old wave files and you now have a new mono
>> comped track anyway!) and load the new MONO comped vocal track.
>>7. Save your new cleaned Vegas project file.
>>8. Now here's the really hard part ;) go to the folder that
>> you specified as the recording folder for the project and
>> REMOVE ANY FILE THAT HAS "Song 1 Lead Vocals" as part of the
>> title. Wow, that was easy! And since you removed the original
>> tracks from the Vegas project, Vegas won't complain that you've
>> removed the files cause IT DOESN'T USE THEM ANYMORE!
>>9. Is this the magic shiny red button that you want to magically
>> do it for you? No.
>> Is this easy? Yes.
>> Would YOU rather manually remove important tracks or would you
>> rather let Vegas do it for you? Me, I'll risk the fatigue this
>> method takes ;) and make sure that I remove exactly what I want
>> (not that I don't trust Vegas at all, but you never know.)
>>
>>Carl: Boy I hope this helps you, I really do.
>>
>>BGC
>>
>>Carl Edwards wrote:
>>>>See, I'm not crazy. Yet another has asked how to save only
>>>>the wav files they are using. The ability to save all the
>>>>wav files in a project is TOTALLY USELESS(I already have
>>>>those files, and windows explorer does a fine job of moving
>>>>things). Why do we need to keep copies of things that we
>>>>did only to comp them or to compare them with others. Once
>>>>the decision is made we need to take all the active wav
>>>>files save them to a folder so we can clean up the stuff we
>>>>don't need. Surely SF can see a use for this feature. We're
>>>>only asking you to make our lives a little easier. Plus,
>>>>the ability to mix a comped track to a mono track would be
>>>>just beautiful. In an earlier post I thought I saw a little
>>>>fear that we might not finish our projects with Vegas, but
>>>>without basic features we may decide not to start them with
>>>>it either. Wouldn't it be a better statemnt for us to track
>>>>a project, save all the tracks,(and the wav files the make
>>>>them) put them on a cd, take the cd to a studio and have
>>>>the people there like the fact that used Vegas to track and
>>>>recomend it to their people for tracking purposes? Ps this
>>>>what happens when you try to explain the same thing in 50
>>>>different ways. :0