damn WE need that feature, BAD!!!!! this is what I do to get around the vegas edit limit

Hmmm, that would help you with your massive drum track edits Pipe.

That said, and there's another thread on Sonar vs Vegas for audio, I don't recommend Sonar for audio even though I cut my teeth on Cakewalk on PC back in Win95 days.

Vegas is far superior for audio only, the only reason I still pay for Sonar (and I hate that) is for the MIDI functionality. I sync Sonar to Vegas, do all audio in Vegas and MIDI in Sonar. Sonar has made strides in audio in the last couple of versions by (what seems to me) copying Vegas in many respects.

I didn't get MIDI support in V5 so I could kick Twelve Tones to the curb, so be it. I will not bitch though as Sony/Madison has and still leads the way in NLE/DAW (audio) performance. They need to be applauded for their steps and the complaining by one or two I see on "another Vegas" forum is disheartening.

MJ

how do you run both at the same time? I thought there would be audio driver sharing issues

I haven't experienced that since Pro Audio versions. Sonar while still silly about drivers has a "Share drivers with other apps" setting in Preferences. Also I don't set up audio tracks in Sonar, just MIDI even though I have audio drivers enabled in Sonar.

I do work with audio enough in Sonar to stay on top of how it's implemented though, I also use WDM drivers in Sonar so as not to have the ASIO share problems.

Edit; I haven't experienced that since *the end of* Pro Audio versions.

MJ

>only reason I still pay for Sonar (and I hate that) is for the MIDI functionality. <

No kidding. I started on Cake 6 and all that time thought, well, that's how big media applications are. Then I got CD Architect bundled with a burner, then Vegas, and now its a little hard to go back to Sonar for those MIDI moments.

Greg

Exactly, for audio only (and video) Vegas is the cat's meow. Unfortunately to date Acid is ridiculous for MIDI, Sonar is the way to go there. I'm confident Sony/Madison will make Twelve Tones obsolete soon (ok, I hope). Sony/Madison has the GUI down, hopefully they will in the short term grasp MIDI in the same way.

It's obvious that the "uber multi-media app." is the goal, again I'm optimistic.

If not, I'll have to stay with the sync setup I have now. No need to update Sonar unless Twelve Tones kicks Sony's butt which I would hate.

MJ

whats madison? do they make pies?

Did I say Dollly?

Madison

MJ ;-)

>I'm confident Sony/Madison will make Twelve Tones obsolete soon <

When you put it that way...... I don't know where I'd put MIDI on my Vegas wish list, but IF Vegas did MIDI well it does become hard to see Cakewalk at all.

In terms of interface, just getting around, getting the damn thing done - Vegas is like more evolved software in a sense. It just feels a lot smarter.

Greg

mjhig - either I missed your answer about how you sync Sonar to Vegas or you didn't give it! I get that about the driver sharing, but are you really syncing sonar and vegas in real-time a la rewire-ish functionality? if so please share how you accomplish this. thx.

You can sync Sonar to Vegas via either MIDI Clock or SMPTE.

I use MIDI-OX's virtual MIDI router (MIDI-Yoke, it's free) midiox.com. Sony has VMR, I never installed it as I already had MIDI-OX

I use MIDI Clock. I'm not at my audio PC now so the general steps are;

In Vegas' Preferences > Sync page > Generate MIDI Clock > Output, select a port (say Yoke 1)

Options > Timecode > Generate MIDI Clock (I put these buttons in the toolbar).

Right-click on the Time at Cursor > MIDI Clock out.

In Sonar > Options > MIDI Devices > Input > select "Yoke 1".

Options > Project > Clock tab > select MIDI sync (I put these buttons on the toolbar also).

Now when you press play or record in Sonar it will wait for the clock, then press play or record in Vegas and Sonar will run in sync.

Hope I didn't forget anything but there's always the help files.

MJ

ahhh, much like syncing an analog deck to a sequencer. OK. I didn't nkow Vegas could do that. Any idea if Cubase or Reason could function the same way as Sonar does for you? My version of Sonar is a bit outdated...1.3.11!!!!

I would be amazed if Cabase didn't but simply open the help file and type sync or MIDI sync in the search box, I haven't explored either Reason or Cubase in that area but MIDI sync is a basic function of any MIDI sequencer.

Hardware sequencers have been doing this long before General MIDI or PC based sequencing apps.

Sonar 1 certainly does, Cakewalk apps. going back as far as I can remember did.

MJ

Yeah, I have MIDI-OX too so I'm gonna have to give this a try asap. That would kinda solve my rewire issues. Thanks!

MJ,
It's personally funny to me, because I've been explaining this scenario of working for years, and hardly anyone got it. Then rewire technology came out, and everybody has to have it to get their apps to work together on the same PC....so then again, I explain, you don't have to have rewire, there is another solution that's always been there. Sonic Foundry even made a Virtual Midi router to be able to sync these apps together in this manor. Most every program out there had midi beat clock or smpte sync abilities. Vegas Pro 1.0 had it, this was a requirement for me to even consider using Vegas as a DAW, because I use a midi sequencer. Oh well, it's like they say. "You can lead a thirsty horse to water, but you can't make him drink". I still use Opcode's Vision for midi, for the exact same reason I use Vegas. The user interface is awesome and I don't feel limited in the way I like to work. I haven't been able to say that when I tried out Cakewalk, Cubase, or Logic in the past. Maybe it's changed, but I don't have a real desire to change since Vision already does everthing I need to do. The only modern feature, I might additionally like is the different shuffle based quantization available in newer sequencers. Been running Vision on a seperate PC and syncing it to other devices even before Vegas existed and still haven't found a midi sequencer that I like more. Hopefully someday Acid's midi features will reach the level that Vision's is currently at, so I can get rid of the Win98 machine it currently runs on.

If anyone needs assistance syncing multiple apps together using midi sync, let me know, or you can do a search and probably find 100 posts outlining how to do it, that I've put up in the past.

FWIW: I tested a lot with Reason and Vegas locked together using MIDI Clock sync. Works very well.

I know it is not ReWired, but it does work.

I specifically set out to improve the MIDI Clock and MTC sync for Vegas 5 over that of Vegas 4. (Vegas 4's sync generation was problematic at times.)

Peter

Yup Red,

It is odd to me also that many are unaware of MIDI Clock. I guess that the newer generation of PC based sequencer users haven't HAD to use MIDI Clock.

I'm from the era of MIDI hardware and the ONLY way to connect all the modules was via MIDI Clock. It's been around a long time and served many a band well live or in the studio.

I've seen your posts on syncing, I've posted some also. I even thought of searching my posts to C & P the above steps as I wasn't on a PC with the apps. and had to go by memory but as I remember, my Sonar to Vegas post was not in a thread with a title about syncing similar to this thread so I opted to retype. I believe we've even had a discussion on this, MIDI-OX, Vision and Sonar.

Does Vision have a Staff View where you can write by inputting notes on the staff?

MJ

specifically set out to improve the MIDI Clock and MTC sync for Vegas 5 over that of Vegas 4. (Vegas 4's sync generation was problematic at times.)

Props to you Peter! In Vegas 4 I have to re-apply the port at times, Vegas would forget a port was selected.

MJ

"Does Vision have a Staff View where you can write by inputting notes on the staff?"

Yes!!! Vision has a Staff View, a track View, a piano roll View, a list editor, and a master sequence view, along with the master transport view. You can click on a sequence from the master sequence View, and it brings up that sequences track view. You click on the midi data on a Track and it brings up the Piano Roll View. You can select a note in the Piano roll View and then goto either the Staff View or List Editor View and the same note will be highlighted and selected ready for editing. You can add notes and edit notes directly in the Staff View. If you make any changes in any of the views everything is linked together and get's updated. If you are looking at the Track View, you can goto the Staff View and all the tracks show up as a seperate staff and you can print out sheet music for the entire composition.

"I specifically set out to improve the MIDI Clock and MTC sync for Vegas 5 over that of Vegas 4."

Just one of many feature enhancements added to V5 and the major complaint I see over at the video forum is they don't like the look of the UI, which too me looks almost exactly the same as V4 except with a few different buttons. I was only disappointed with the UI, because I was hoping it would look more like the direction like Sonar, Logic Audio, or Cubase that makes it look more like hardware UI's. There's actually users over there complaining because they spent time changing the UI. Obviously, these users have no concept of business marketing and product differenciating.

I like the look of vegas each time. I HATED the alien technology look to cubase sx with glyphs and indecipherable coding crap. I guess V5 could use less goofy looking buttons Im still getting confused from time to time but overall, I like the word processor look