I just recently fired up my old 35 year-old Sony Trinicon tube camera just for the heck of it, it's still works perfectly but comparatively, it looks just awful. Vintage audio gear is quite popular and increasingly expensive, there is no such thing as desirable vintage video gear.

All of which paved the way to make life so much easier for the "Now" producer.
Today the production environment needs less and less employees so jobs have been lost.
I don't see Production cost getting any cheaper.. In fact it seems like the more you spend on a production the more respect you get regardless if it is crap.
My challenge to anyone is to humble their selves and work for the final cut.
Master the basics and then move up to the "Jones" world of high dollar production.
I don't really care if people don't see my point here but talking about it shows how spoiled we are today in this field.

My first editing experience started with 2 half inch decks in a public tv station.
I wrote, produced and directed 50 episodes of a local Drama series.
I did almost nothing by the book!

FPP, having been in this business for over thirty-five years, I simply don't agree with pretty much anything you have said in this thread. If your method works for you and you have an audience for your stuff, then more power to you.

FPP said, "My bank account tells me that if I try and go beyond my current capabilities I will not be able to sustain any kind of usable work flow."

When you realize the benefits of HD then you will also realize how much your workflow will be greatly enhanced to the benefit of both you AND your bank account.

Once I realized this, (a long time ago) I invested (key word is invested) in HD cams and have never looked back. The benefits far out weigh the investment expenses and has paid for itself many times.

You are actually loosing money for your bank account by staying where you are!

High definition is NOT a preference, it is an investment that will pay for itself many times over. Your workflow will greatly benefit as well.

From what I have read here, I think you are afraid of getting out of your box, afraid of getting out of your comfort zone and moving into new areas and are using SD as an excuse and justification to stay where you are.

VidMus-
I feel that I'm not in a box you may be thinking of.
I don't need an excuse to enjoy this the way I do..
Furthermore,If i were working for someone who is spending boatloads of money on a project and found some value in my attitude, I would comply with their methods.
Investment is relative to knowing and expecting a return.. You can tell that I don't care about "Returns" more than I do the artistic gratification I get from doing what I want to do.

John Cline-
There have been good points that you have made within this thread..
Your experience alone should suggest to you that maybe there is some truth to what I say.
There are a lot of people just Like you with tons of experience that are losing their homes and living on the edge with all their shiny equipment just sitting around hungry for that monthly payment.
I actually agree with you most of the time except I don't think you are the "God" of video production because someone like me is not where you are.
You had to have started humble like I am in order to get where you are.
I have been very happy with Vegas Pro 12 and am trying to engage in the "Heartbeat" of video Production.
I never made a dime doing what I do, however, I have won some local awards for my efforts.
I respect your opinion sir.

Re 8 track music tapes - it could be worse ... like feeling nostalgic for image orthicon and vidicon camera tubes.

Don't forget saticon tubes. I changed several in my younger days :)

Mike

Unless you want to shoot in 4:3 don't even think of this camera. Yes, there is a '16:9' setting, but it's not a 16:9 chip, so gains a lot of softness in this mode, and looks AWFUL compared to say an XH-A1 in SD mode. I had 2 x PD-170 cams, which followed 2 x PD-150 cams. I loved 'em! Superb in low light (for the day) but well past their sell by date now. To be honest, I'd be wary of ANY tape based camera that's been around as long as the PD-170!

Okay.. That is very useful info to ponder as well as the other feedbacks.
I may have to consider a life changing event in my work flow.
There are some Plug-ins that can simulate the look I like in my projects,but I don't know all of them as of yet.
Since I've been pounded on so much (LOL) about my infinity for Standard Def I am up against the wall.
This thread may have convinced me to cut my afro and get rid of the bell bottoms!
It's so lonely down here.
If I go HD, that could be shocking to my senses and could cause a mild artistic black-out for me.
But at least I'm on the right forum while I'm being converted..
Yes, I am thinking that some how I can make my love for SD morph in to a more updated work flow if I just try it.
I never said that HD was a bad thing just wasn't my thing.
Aspect Ratio seems to be a prominent factor in why I should switch over too.

in 2010 I went through exactly what you are going though now. For years I held on to working only in SD while everyone moved forward with HD. Fortunately, from 2005 to 2010 my camera was a Sony HVR-A1u, which had the options of recording in HDV format, as well as transferring HDV footage to my computer in 4:3 SD format through electronic down-sampling without introducing artifacts. I would then edit in SD and produce 4:3 DVDs.

In 2010 I made the decision to experiment with HD and much to my surprise, I was blown away by the ease of workflow and improvement in viewing experience. As such, I re-transferred all my old work to the computer and re-rendered all my projects. I wound up creating HD MP4 files as well as SD DVDs using the wide-screen format (yes, you will still be able to make DVDs from HD material). I couldn't believe how easily I was able to make the transition to HD.

Looking back, I am very glad that I had decided to record in HDV format instead of SD. I have since sold the old camcorder and bought tape-less equipment with which I shoot 1080 30p all the time (my favorite format).

I hope this helps you with your decision.

Peter

I love my new Sony FDR-AX100. I am not saying you should go straight into 4K but there is the Sony HDR-CX900 that has the same great 1" sensor just doesn't record in 4K. I own a Canon Vixia HF G30 too but it is not as good as the new Sony. The 1080 60p footage is gorgeous and even at 4:2:0 holds up very well for color correction and any FX you may want to apply. Oh yes, you can still make pretty DVDs from such footage. I will post later my now favorite workflow for DVDs from HD material.

--- To be honest, I'd be wary of ANY tape based camera that's been around as long as the PD-170! --- Arthur.S

Ditto that- beware of any older- style DV tape-based cams, drives get old, and FireWire boards burn out. FireWire went out on both my PD150 and a VX2000, after a LOT of use, mind you.

darbpw1-
Thanks for that re-enforcement on what I have been gathering from the responses.. I definitely .aborted the purchase base on the obvious issues about the camera and the format.
No sense in buying a camera every 6 months when I should start off with a new one and up to date.

DV isn't just standard definition it is compromised standard definition. Pretty much everything that is broadcast down here is still standard definition and for sure it doesn't look all that shabby compared to 1080 however the standard definition cameras that are still being used are vastly better than the PD 170 or any DV camera. DV throws away a lot of picture data through chroma subsampling, it didn't look too bad on the old standard definition CRT TVs but on the HDTVs it looks really bad.

Bob.

Bob, are you talking about 4:2:0 DV (PAL), or 4:1:1 DV (NTSC?)

I've only seen 4:2:0, sorry no "NTSC" PD170s. I'll check this again during the week if I get time. I have a dub of a Blue Planet episode on Digital Betacam and it looks pretty good on a HDTV. Someone made a DV dub of it and it looks pretty bad on the same HDTV. It's been while since I played those tapes so I'll check again as we have a M25 VCR with HDMI so I can keep it all digital, anything composite going into that HDTV looks pretty sad.

Where it all gets a bit confusing down here is a lot of the over the air broadcasters are transmitting 576p which counts as high definition. So there's still quite a few shooting content with Digital Betacam cameras which looks OK.

My other concern with the PD170s is getting them serviced, the heads will last forever thanks to the ME tape but not the bearings and other bits in the transport assembly. The OP said the one he's looking at has 170 hours, I hope he realises the figure displayed is 10xHrs i.e. "170" is 1,700 hours.

Bob.

farss-
I must also thank you for confirming the (170xhrs) fact that Have been pointed out by other respondents in this thread.
I never knew much about a camera from a meta-technical aspect.
When a camera that is being sold by a legitimate company (or not) they should be required to disclosed this in full range.
I would be a complete idiot to buy this camera after engaging in this thread and other fact-finding efforts of mine.
In fact, like someone pointed out in this post, buying a 15 year old camera like this one is risky at best, in so many words.
1,700 hrs means I shouldn't be surprised that I would be shopping for another camera in six months or less.

FPP,
I'd be more concerned about the age than the head hours, I've heard of heads in digital video equipment lasting over 5,000 hours. The tape used for digital video is not abrasive.

We only recently sold off two HVR Z1P HDV cameras for $1,000. We included 6 batteries and 1.8x teleconverter lens in the deal. Given that I'd be paying no more than $300 for a PD170!

As you seem to have realised though it probably is time to take a leap to HD. Being able to shoot 1080p is quite a game changer that'll open up new creative horizons for you. I've seen quite a few Sony PMW EX1s for sale at a reasonable price as many are going for the PMW 200 so they can record 4:2:2. You'll still not be at the bleeding edge so there's no technical challenges to keep you awake at night.

Bob.

One can always render out their HD to DV format if they want that "look."

farss-
There was an (AVCHD) shoulder mount that Sony had available but discontinued it when they ran out of chasis' for it.
The story was told to me that Sony found about 200 or so 1980's style VHS type chasis' in their warehouse and retrofitted them with a 64gb internal drive and also it takes SD cards and memory sticks.
Recorded in HD and so on...
In fact I saw a couple of them available on Ebay but I would rather buy it direct from Sony considering it was their Frankenstein.
I read the specs and found myself wanting one.
They still have it advertised at SONY.COM and click Pro Video Cameras.
$1600.00 is realistic for my first time stepping over in to the HD world.

+1