SONY Press release
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PeterWright
wrote on 11/10/2004, 8:10 PM
One thing I'm wondering about is this new tape recommended for shooting HDV, whilst MiniDV tapes will also work.
The implication seems to be that there will be drop outs from MiniDV, but has anyone heard whether this is so?
I always use new tapes, and only really need the information to stay good on the tape till its captured, often the same day.
Be interested to hear how people's experiences pan out.
On the same subject - when blue ray becomes available, will there be a plug-in module for existing cameras? I can't believe that brand new models like FX1 and ZU1 will be out of date so quickly.
The implication seems to be that there will be drop outs from MiniDV, but has anyone heard whether this is so?
I always use new tapes, and only really need the information to stay good on the tape till its captured, often the same day.
Be interested to hear how people's experiences pan out.
On the same subject - when blue ray becomes available, will there be a plug-in module for existing cameras? I can't believe that brand new models like FX1 and ZU1 will be out of date so quickly.
farss
wrote on 11/10/2004, 8:46 PM
My gut says this is a bit of smart marketing by Sony, the mpeg-2 stream is more robust than DV25 so there should be less risk. But all that said if you're going to all the trouble that you should be to get good HD who'se going to argue over a few dollars more for the tape?
Bob.
Bob.
mhbstevens
wrote on 11/10/2004, 8:47 PM
FARSS:
I will have the cash for a second-hand PD150 by the end of the month. If you are serious let me know a price and where you are geographically.
Mike Stevens
michaelhowardstevens A T Earthlink. what fishermen use
I will have the cash for a second-hand PD150 by the end of the month. If you are serious let me know a price and where you are geographically.
Mike Stevens
michaelhowardstevens A T Earthlink. what fishermen use
HPV
wrote on 11/10/2004, 8:49 PM
One should be able to pay for this camera with just a few SD jobs. This is the golden nugget of our time. Thank you Sony. Wow
BTW, 15 frame GOP should make for great DOC.
Questions..........
Is the DVCAM tape mode offered when shooting in HDV?
Does the HDV deck use full size DVCAM tapes?
Craig (Wow) H.
BTW, 15 frame GOP should make for great DOC.
Questions..........
Is the DVCAM tape mode offered when shooting in HDV?
Does the HDV deck use full size DVCAM tapes?
Craig (Wow) H.
musman
wrote on 11/10/2004, 9:05 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong- but this frame mode will either 1- deinterlace in camera, which will ikely lead to a softening of the image, or 2- won't deinterlace, leaving us with the dreaded jaggies.
Like I said before, I'd LOVE to be wrong and yes I am keeping an open mind until I try one for myself.
Like I said before, I'd LOVE to be wrong and yes I am keeping an open mind until I try one for myself.
Spot|DSE
wrote on 11/10/2004, 9:31 PM
I'll put it this way....Major networks were here today. This cam will be on the air so damn much faster than DV ever got there it will spin your head.
Farss, I've NEVER put so much faith in any technology. Without my "inside knowledge", based on what I saw and did today and in the past couple months, I can tell you that I'd STILL be feeling this way. And there is more to come still. But I've already ordered a couple Z-1's, and I don't get any "special deals" on these right now. No one does. Not yet anyway....I won't see them for a couple months, but at least I've got limited access to one.
Farss, I've NEVER put so much faith in any technology. Without my "inside knowledge", based on what I saw and did today and in the past couple months, I can tell you that I'd STILL be feeling this way. And there is more to come still. But I've already ordered a couple Z-1's, and I don't get any "special deals" on these right now. No one does. Not yet anyway....I won't see them for a couple months, but at least I've got limited access to one.
Spot|DSE
wrote on 11/10/2004, 9:33 PM
You are wrong. End of story. Forget what you think you know, forget what you might have heard. I've been playing with this footage for a couple months, have put it through it's paces. The logic you apply to DV and the logic you apply to long GOP and the logic you apply to 1/3 chips is illogical now.
I was doing deep zooms today, on interlaced footage from the cam, and deinterlacing in Vegas (although the cam deinterlaces too) and the image was phenomenal. Press people look for things to latch on to and make hay with. They got nothing today. Because it looked that good.
I was doing deep zooms today, on interlaced footage from the cam, and deinterlacing in Vegas (although the cam deinterlaces too) and the image was phenomenal. Press people look for things to latch on to and make hay with. They got nothing today. Because it looked that good.
Grazie
wrote on 11/10/2004, 10:02 PM
Just got up here in London!
Thanks Liam, you made your point - what a total wallie! I've edited my post above to fit in with my Blunder . . apologies . . I'll slink away and nurse my Canon XM2s . . .grovel, grovel . . .
Grazie
Thanks Liam, you made your point - what a total wallie! I've edited my post above to fit in with my Blunder . . apologies . . I'll slink away and nurse my Canon XM2s . . .grovel, grovel . . .
Grazie
farss
wrote on 11/10/2004, 10:30 PM
Only the pro camera will shoot DVCAM and it'll only take small format tapes. The consummer camera will shoot DV only (apart from all the nice HDV stuff).
Our PD150s will not be on the market until the pro HDV camera arrives, I expect we'll see a flood of gear for sale around then.
I'm in Australia so the cameras will be PAL and they've got quite a few hours on the heads, if it wasn't for the HDV thing we probably would have replaced them some time ago.
Bib.
Our PD150s will not be on the market until the pro HDV camera arrives, I expect we'll see a flood of gear for sale around then.
I'm in Australia so the cameras will be PAL and they've got quite a few hours on the heads, if it wasn't for the HDV thing we probably would have replaced them some time ago.
Bib.
Liam_Vegas
wrote on 11/10/2004, 10:52 PM
Grazie... SORRY!... didn;t mean to embarrass... and I have now deleted my post... so you can now delete yours... and no-one needs to remember anything right?
farss
wrote on 11/10/2004, 11:15 PM
SPOT,
as I haven't seen any footage from the pro version, only the consummer version, I can only base my comments on that shooting 1080i.
Perhaps I can sum it up this way, it's much, much better than I thought it would be, the things that I thought could make it go wrong do make it go wrong but you've got to try much, much harder than I thought you would to get into trouble. Even then you've got to look pretty hard to notice. I doubt Joe Average would notice. I've certainly seen nothing that made me shudder, nothing as horrid as macroblocking, the camera may employ some very smart algorithms to prevent this, if that's the case Sony have really done an excellent job.
To be specific as best I can, what seemed to upset the beast was frames with lots of heat haze and quite a few moving vehicles. To my untrained eye it seemed as though the camera was reducing the resolution to leave enough bandwidth for the encoder to cope. If that's what it was doing then it's a mighty smart box, most mpeg-2 encoders would have turned the same footage into a right mess so I'm in no way belittling the camera or the guys who designed it, rather I'm saying, yes you can hit a wall with this thing and it copes extremely well. If you remember where the wall is and stay away from it then you'll do even better.
I hopes no one takes what I'm saying the wrong way :)
Bob.
as I haven't seen any footage from the pro version, only the consummer version, I can only base my comments on that shooting 1080i.
Perhaps I can sum it up this way, it's much, much better than I thought it would be, the things that I thought could make it go wrong do make it go wrong but you've got to try much, much harder than I thought you would to get into trouble. Even then you've got to look pretty hard to notice. I doubt Joe Average would notice. I've certainly seen nothing that made me shudder, nothing as horrid as macroblocking, the camera may employ some very smart algorithms to prevent this, if that's the case Sony have really done an excellent job.
To be specific as best I can, what seemed to upset the beast was frames with lots of heat haze and quite a few moving vehicles. To my untrained eye it seemed as though the camera was reducing the resolution to leave enough bandwidth for the encoder to cope. If that's what it was doing then it's a mighty smart box, most mpeg-2 encoders would have turned the same footage into a right mess so I'm in no way belittling the camera or the guys who designed it, rather I'm saying, yes you can hit a wall with this thing and it copes extremely well. If you remember where the wall is and stay away from it then you'll do even better.
I hopes no one takes what I'm saying the wrong way :)
Bob.
musman
wrote on 11/11/2004, 1:13 AM
Damn, Spot, you must really like this thing. Have you heard about this product to make dvx100 material 4:4:4? It sounds too good to be true and there is talk about the new Sony HDV cams there as well. They say they'll get to it, but not before they get to it working with the XL2 as they're primarily interested in film transfers:
http://www.reel-stream.com/
No idea if this would work, it just sounds interesting.
http://www.reel-stream.com/
No idea if this would work, it just sounds interesting.