Thanks MusicVid, will do and report my results.

Hi Musicvid,

Unfortunately (as usual, with me) I've had mixed results with TS Doctor and Video Redo TV Suite so far.

First I tried both programs "out of the box," with all settings left to their default values. I imported a few of the TS files captured by the Hauppauge Colossus into each program, and ran Quickstream (Video Redo) and Save Fixed File (TS Doctor).

The output files created by both programs generated the same symptoms in Vegas Pro 12 x64 as the original captured TS files:

1. When I tried to "import media" into Vegas for both files, Vegas hung for several minutes before each file became highlighted in the file explorer.

2. After that I was able to import the files into Vegas' "Media Bin", but when I tried to drag the files to the timeline, nothing at all happened.

After playing with options in TS Doctor and Video Redo I've managed to come up with a working solution of sorts. It involves demuxing the captured files with both TS Doctor and TS Muxer, where the video stream output by TS Doctor can be imported into Vegas and the audio stream output by TS Muxer can be imported.

What has baffled me about this combination of program outputs is that TS Doctor allegedly uses my installed copy of TSMuxer to demux the captured files. Yet the video stream produced by TS Doctor can be imported into Vegas, whereas the video stream produced by TS Muxer cannot. The opposite is true of the audio streams. I can import the audio stream produced by TS Muxer but not the audio stream produced by TS Doctor.

I don't think any of these issues are the fault of the software. I think the fault lies in a combination of how the Hauppauge captures audio/video streams, and of course the operator (me).

I'm starting to think that my best course would be to make a lot of backups, format the hard drive, and re-install Windows Home Premium 7 x64. With all of the experimenting I've been doing to try to make this work I may have installed codecs that are running interference somehow. At any rate, a "fresh start" is probably worth a try.

My ultimate goal is to be able to import the audio and video streams captured by the Colossus in Vegas with as little recoding or conversion as possible beforehand. Maybe it's just not possible to do that.

What I do know at this point is that the captured files can be imported "as-is" into both Video Redo TV Suite and Nero 12 Platinum. I can see the video and audio tracks in the timelines and run conversions to get the files into formats that Vegas import. It's just that a lot of recoding is required and the results are lackluster compared to the quality I see when I play the captured files in Windows Media Player and VLC Media Player.

I really wonder why Vegas Pro has so much trouble dealing with these captured TS files when programs like Video Redo TV Suite and Nero Platinum 12 can import the files and support editing on their respective timelines.

So many variables, so much confusion at this end. It all seems so random.

Aside from my disorganized approach to this mess, I wanted to thank you for the pointers about TS Doctor and Video Redo TV Suite. They're obviously two more useful tools that I can use to try to come up with the Magic Bullet that will give me a better solution than completely re-encoding those files before I import them into Vegas.

Thanks for your time,
Ben Nash

So the elephant in the room may be your audio stream.

I am unfamiliar with "Colossus," yet other Hauppauge offerings have responded favorably to the treatment suggested.

It may be that a two step process is necessary in this case; a video re-index, and an audio demux.

Hi Musicvid,

The audio stream is certainly a problem regardless of what combination of methods I wind up using: in the original captured TS file it's in AAC format, which this version of Vegas can't read for some reason.

I've been posting messages in the Hauppauge UK forum about this issue, and am trying to stay current with drivers, software, etc. In addition there are now 4 different capture programs that will work with this card. One of those may turn out to be the one that captures usable files. My problem in that context is that I already have this huge library of files captured with the application that came with the Colossus's installation disc, WinTV. Thus I would really like to find a way to use those files in Vegas even if I find that an alternate capture program does a better job for future captures.

Thanks once again for your observations. If I can find a workable solution involving multiple re-indexing and/or conversion programs, I'll post a description of the method here in case there are other Hauppauge users pulling out the hair that I used to have before I started this project.

Take care,
Ben Nash

I'm a little outside my zone here, but I think VideoRedo TVSuite will take those pesky WinTV files, convert and reindex, without needing another program. Whether this helps the audio issue is still a ? for me.

Hi Musicvid,

Yes, I'm still working on various combinations of things with the two programs. It does look as though those are the two that will most likely give me the results I need.

I can import the files into Nero Platinum 12, but thus far the results of using Nero Recode and/or the Video Editor have produced some pretty unwatchable stuff.

I should have added that the reaon I want to get these files into Vegas is that I've been using a combination of effects that work very well for this type of content (Japanese Anime, recorded from satellite TV and online streaming subscriptions). I haven't tried this combination of effects for live-action stuff yet, but here are the ones that do wonders for animation:

Sony Sharpen (various settings depending on content)
Sony Saturation Adjust ("Boost Midtones")
Sony Brightness and Contrast (various settings depending on content)
Sony Unsharp Mask ("Medium" or "Light" depending on content)

I'm really amazed by how well these filters clean up those recordings.

I also use the Video Pan/Crop as needed for letterboxed content. Sometimes the Anime Network displays content in that format. I expand it to fill a 1920 X 1080 frame. It works great.

Now if I had similar options in TS Doctor and VideoRedo, I wouldn't even try to bring Vegas into the picture. I'll be exploring that too in the next few days.

Have a good one,
Ben Nash

I've not tried VideoReDo TV Suite, but the MPEG-2 version, VideoReDo Plus had an option to convert the audio to Linear Pulse Code Modulation (LPCM).
Example here. PCM audio in the form of wav shouldn't be a problem for Vegas. Perhaps the functionality was carried forward into the MPEG-4 version.

Hi John,

I checked and did find that option in the MPEG-2 and H264 pre-defined profiles described as "Elementary Streams". The profiles produce M2V and M2TS output files, respectively.

However, I'm keeping that option in my back pocket because I may have found another option that minimizes video stream re-encoding and re-sampling as far as I can tell so far.

1. I use VideoRedo | Quickstream. This turns out to fix a nonlinear async between the audio and video streams in the captured TS file. However this file cannot be imported into Vegas

2. I use the TSDoctor DeMuxer on the Quickstream output file. This produces an H264 video stream which can be imported into Vegas. The audio stream has thus far been in 3 different formats: if it's MP2, it'll import into Vegas with no problems. If it's ES, I use the freeware wave editor Audacity to convert it to WAV, which can be imported into Vegas. If it's EAC3, I have to use an audio converter such as AnyAudioConverter (freeware) or AVS Audio Converter (paid license, part of "AVS Media Tools") to convert it to WAV.

Unless I use Quickstream before this step, the DeMuxer output streams are out of sync. The async is nonlinear and can't be fixed by shifting or "stretching" tracks in Vegas.

The end result is a pair of audio/video streams which import into vegas, are in sync, and preserve the video bitrate, frame rate, and resolution of the captured TS file.

Thanks for that tip about the LPCM audio though. I never would have found that myself, since it's buried in a combo-box in the profile options for only two of the pre-defined profiles in VideoRedo (that I've found). In the event that the method described above doesn't work for some reason, I'll have another option to try, even though it will probably involve some re-encoding when VideoRedo does the conversion.

Have a good one,
Ben Nash

"1. I use VideoRedo | Quickstream. This turns out to fix a nonlinear async between the audio and video streams in the captured TS file. However this file cannot be imported into Vegas"

Do post the complete MediaInfo properties for the fixed file. The method has been 90%+ reliable for Hauppauge and many other DVR types. I'd like to see what's different about Colossus. MediaInfo is a free download from Sourceforge.

Hi MusicVid,

OK, here's a complete set of MediaInfo reports for the following files:

1. TS file captured by Hauppauge Colossus

2. TS file output by VideoRedo | QuickStream

3. Video stream output by TSDoctor | DeMuxer

4. Audio stream output by TSDoctor | DeMuxer

5. Audio stream output by Audacity wave editor

I've used "*************" to try to delimit the reports. Here goes:

1. Captured File
Capture Card: Hauppauge Colossus, Component Video/Analog Audio inputs
Source: DirecTV Genie DVR Component Video/Analog Audio outputs

General
ID : 0 (0x0)
Complete name : SpacePirates01.ts
Format : MPEG-TS
File size : 3.74 GiB
Duration : 25mn 56s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 20.6 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 21.8 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 25mn 56s
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 59.940 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : LC
Muxing mode : ADTS
Codec ID : 15
Duration : 25mn 56s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -481ms

******************************************************************************

2. VideoRedo | QuickStream output; does not import into Vegas Pro 12 x64

NOTE 1: If this step is omitted, the A/V streams output by TSDoctor Demuxer will be out of sync.

NOTE 2: Tools | Options | Transport Stream Output | Output Mux Rate set to "Automatic". Default is "ATSC - 19.2 Mbps" (turns out to be constant Bitrate). This was done to minimize changes in the input file VBR 20.6 Mbps. Seems to have worked (see below).

General
ID : 1 (0x1)
Complete name : SpacePirates01_Vrd_QuickStream_AutoBitRate.ts
Format : MPEG-TS
File size : 3.71 GiB
Duration : 25mn 32s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 20.8 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 25mn 32s
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 59.940 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : LC
Muxing mode : ADTS
Codec ID : 15
Duration : 25mn 32s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy

*************************************************************************************
3. TSDoctor | Demuxer Video Stream output. Imports OK into Vegas Pro 12 x64

General
Complete name : SpacePirates01_Vrd_QuickStream_AutoBitRate_PID_1011_.264
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
File size : 3.57 GiB

Video
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 59.940 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive

**************************************************************************************
4. TSDoctor | Demuxer Audio Stream output. Note file type. Does not import into Vegas Pro 12 x64

General
Complete name : SpacePirates01_Vrd_QuickStream_AutoBitRate_PID_1100_.es
Format : ADTS
Format/Info : Audio Data Transport Stream
File size : 46.0 MiB
Overall bit rate mode : Variable

Audio
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : LC
Bit rate mode : Variable
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 46.0 MiB (100%)

****************************************************************************************
5. Audacity conversion of above ES file to WAV file. This file imports into Vegas Pro 12 x64 and is in sync with the H264 Video stream output by the TSDoctor DeMuxer

General
Complete name : SpacePirates01_Vrd_QuickStream_AutoBitRate_PID_1100_Audacity.wav
Format : Wave
File size : 281 MiB
Duration : 25mn 32s
Overall bit rate mode : Constant
Overall bit rate : 1 536 Kbps

Audio
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : 1
Duration : 25mn 32s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 281 MiB (100%)


Hope this info helps,
Ben Nash

So, what if you export the .ts format from VideoRedo as .mp4 wrapper, instead?
Does Vegas open it then?

Hi MusicVid,

I'm in the middle of render now but will try that as soon as the machine is free.

Speaking of rendering: as you've seen, the frame rate is 59.940 fps and scan mode progressive in all the video streams.

If I wanted to use Vegas to render a file for Blu-Ray, what would be the best choice for frame rate and scan mode given those input files?

At the moment the Vegas render is to an AVC video stream, 29.97 fps Progressive. Would it make more sense to render it as 29.97 fps interlaced? Seems as though I throw away a lot of frames either way.

Thanks,
Ben Nash

[Edited]

Based on your response I aborted the 30p render and will instead use one of the Sony AVC 60i profiles.

I took the down time to try that VideoRedo MP4 export. In VideoRedo I used "Save As" with the H264 MP4 profile. I didn't change any of the profile defaults.

I got a really strange result. I was able to import the file into Vegas and when I dragged it to the timeline I got both the video and audio tracks. However the video frames are all solid green!

On the other hand, when I play the MP4 file in Windows Media Player, it looks and sounds fine.

I know I've seen this before in Vegas but it was sometime in the distant past and I can't remember what combination of events caused it then.

I'm going to start that 60i render now. In the meantime, have you ever heard of anything like this with Vegas and MP4 files?

Sorry.... I know I'm going off on tangents here, but they keep appearing out of thin air like this. As far as the "Green Frames" problem goes, my uninformed guess is that I must have a codec problem somewhere.

I wasn't thinking right when I made the last post, sorry.
BluRay can be 60i or 60p, it's 30p that is not supported.
Note: MediaInfo has been known to misreport the scan mode, and it seems a bit unusual to have 60p in standard def format.

You "may" have to do two passes in VRD -- one Quickstream Fix, and one Save As .mp4. I'd have to test it. The second pass should go really fast.

Why don't you upload an original clip from Colossus somewhere and I'll play with it, time permitting. I use Dropbox, Mediafire, or Google Drive.

Thanks for the offer of help, MusicVid. I'm currently uploading the file in Google Drive. This is the first time I've used it so we'll have to work out the details of how to make it available to you.

It's slow going. Although this is a standard def 25 min program, the Colossus captured it at a bitrate of 20+ Mbps. For this reason it's a little over 3 GB in size, even at 720 X 480p.

BTW regarding the progressive scan type on these recordings: 480p is also what my TVs report when they play Anime Channel programming. So whatever the frame rate really is, the TVs agree with the Colossus that the scan type is progressive.

Ben Nash

How about a 60 sec. clip instead?
Sorry, I don't do 3 GB downloads unless I'm being paid for it.
;?)

OK, when my render finishes I'll capture a new 60 sec clip of the same content and upload that to Google Drive (there doesn't seem to be a way to attach files to posts in this forum).

By then, the upload of the 3GB file should also be finished. You'd then have the option of working with either one, or both.

Once again I appreciate the time you've been taking to do this. I've seen some of your Vegas tutorials on YouTube and know that you have a lot on your plate.

You should have access to both files tomorrow. These overnight "marathon" renders take a long time even with my i7 machine. I think the Sony Unsharp mask is the culprit there.

Ben Nash

MusicVid,

Here's a "Google Drive" link to a short clip captured from the same source. This is the first time I've used GD. According to the "Sharing" settings for this file, you're supposed to be able to access it with the link below, sans login.

The access types didn't include a "download" or analogous privilege, so I set it to "edit". There is a "download" button at the link location which works at this end.

Let me know if you run into problems accessing the file:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_Ei-9isvuj_aXlWcHJGMjFwOFE/edit?usp=sharing

Thanks again,
Ben Nash

Got the download, will look at, time-available.
m

HI,

Understood, this should be a very low priority effort at your end. Given your output in the forums and tutorial videos, if you can't get to it, that's cool.

I wanted to add that the content, as I've mentioned before, is Japanese Anime. For this reason the animation looks a little discontinuous at times. That's not the fault of the capture - it's how this kind of content really plays, either on DVD, Blu-Ray, or Satellite/Cable. Sometimes the Anime producers take a lot of shortcuts with "cel rate" vs. frame rate, and the unfortunate result is an entire cast of players that look as though they're suffering from late-stage alcoholic tremors.

BTW I also wanted to mention that I learned about the Sony Unsharp Mask (along with the Color Correction Effect) from the energetic guy whose video is linked below. It takes him a minute or two of bizarre commentary before he gets into the gist of the presentation, but once he does he provides a lot of useful info for amateurs like me. I thought you might be interested in the video for its own sake as a combination of entertainment and information.

Little Rich - Sony Vegas Unsharp Mask:

Have a good one,
Ben Nash

These VideoReDo TV Suite settings work in Vegas Pro with no problem at all.

The resulting video (filename.h.264) and audio (filename.wav) elementary streams from VideoReDo Quick Stream Fix can be muxed together with tsMuxer to a filename.m2ts. The key to this is to [I]change[/I] the frame rate. Seems the 60p frame rate marked in the original file gives Vegas fits for standard definition media. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.