Sound and Picture Out of Synch with HDV

Videojohn wrote on 4/9/2008, 4:15 AM
Good afternoon,

I am a Vegas 8 pro user. I've just imported a project shot in HDV (720p - with the JVC GYHD111E). I first imported the footage with Connect HD 2.1 (to obtain intermediate .avi files and then imported the captured files in the Vegas bin)

What happens is that the sound and the picture are OUT OF SYNCH! In the begining of a tape the sound is synch but progressively the sound become out of synch.

Is this something that happens during capture? Or is it something that must be set in Vegas properties? (because theoriginal footage on tape is ok). Please help! Do I need to recapture all the footage or can I fix teh problem with the captured footage?

Thanks for your helps
Videojohn

Comments

Serena wrote on 4/9/2008, 4:28 AM
No, it doesn't happen during capture and this doesn't have to be set in Vegas. I presume you have set Vegas project properties to match your material?
farss wrote on 4/9/2008, 4:34 AM
When you're playing the footage back try stopping the playback and then start it again. I and others have had a problem where the audio delay increases over time as you playback. Nothing wrong with the capture or the rendered output.

If that's not your problem, kind of out of ideas.

Bob.
Videojohn wrote on 4/9/2008, 9:53 AM
The sound is still not synch!
Even when I read the captured file with windows Media Player or Win DVD, the sound is not synch!

I verified again the original footage and everything is fine.
I tried to put the footage in another disk but the same probloem persist!

Can it be a problem of capture? I hope I'll not have to re capture everything!

Thank you for your help
Videojohn
TimTyler wrote on 4/9/2008, 10:00 AM
Is it me, or has there been an sudden burst of sync issues reported here?

I personally experienced it for the first time a couple of weeks ago. I think that the problem is not necessarily that the audio is out of sync with picture, but that we hear it out of sync in Vegas.

I wonder if a recent Windows update screwed with OS audio systems?

Videojohn, try rendering a bit of your out-of-sync project to a WMV and then play that back and see if the WMV is still out of sync.
Videojohn wrote on 4/9/2008, 11:41 PM
I already tried to render a piece of the files and it is still out of Synch!

Again, what I think is strange is that even when the file is played with WIndows Media Player or Win DVD (thus not in Vegas!) it continues out of synch.

Again the original footage is ok, no problem. So it seems that the captured footage is out of synch and will stay like that!

In the begining of the captured tape the sound is synch BUT progressively becomes OUT OF SYNCH.

PLEASE HELP.
Thank you,

Video John
Videojohn wrote on 4/10/2008, 1:17 AM
PLease Help!

I finally deleted a tape that was captured and recaptured it again.
But the same problem continues! The AUDIO IS OUT OF SYNCH!!!!
(This time the "out of synch" starts later during the tape, comparing to the previous capture experience)

I really don't know what to do next to solve this problem.

Can it be a problem of the sound card? (note: I did not change anything in my hard or software)

Can it be linked to the fact that the footage is HDV 720p?

Thank you for your help
Videojohn

Videojohn wrote on 4/10/2008, 2:21 AM
I made another test:
I captured only half an hour of footage HDV (with conect HD 2.1) but the same problem continues. The AUDIO IS OUT OF SYNCH!!!

Please help!!!!!
Serena wrote on 4/10/2008, 2:39 AM
Have you captured using Vegas? You need capture only a few minutes. Replay can be a problem, but setting preview to "auto" will ensure that it plays in reatime.
Videojohn wrote on 4/10/2008, 3:27 AM
Hi Serena,
No I captured through Connect HD 2.1 first and then imported the footage into Vegas. Does Vegas Pro 8 can capture footage HDV directly with its own device? Without using connect HD as an inermediary?

It is not a pb of play back, because I read the footage with windows media player and win DVD and the footage is still out of synch.

Do you have any solution?
Thanks
Serena wrote on 4/10/2008, 3:39 AM
Vegas Pro 8 (and 7) will capture HDV and you should try that. You will capture m2t files, which you can render to avi using the inbuilt Cineform codec. But don't render the track, just see how it plays. How current is your version of HDLink? A bit old, I think http://www.cineform.com/products/Downloads/Downloads.htmConnect HD v3.42 build 38[/link]
Videojohn wrote on 4/10/2008, 4:10 AM
How do you import HDV directly nto Vegas 8? What are the steps?

My version of Connect HD is 2.1

But since I bought it nothing has change with my equipment. THe footage has been shot with a JVC GY-HD111E!
THanks
Serena wrote on 4/10/2008, 5:18 AM
Plug the camera in to computer via firewire, click File, click Capture and follow the prompts. The various upgrades to Connect were not about equipment, they were improved performance and bug removal.
Videojohn wrote on 4/10/2008, 5:59 AM
I don't succeed to capture HDV directly from Vegas 8. Is there any parameter to set?

Now I discover that some footage that was out of synch is now synch. But the other footage (which is in the same timeline) is not synch! What a headache!

Please do you have any suggestion. I really don't know what happens!!!!!!! Can it be a bug from Vegas 8 Pro?
Serena wrote on 4/10/2008, 6:09 AM
I've just closed down my editing machine for going to bed, so need someone else to give precise directions. But it is straight forward. Must select HDV and there is one other thing that has slipped out of memory (probably because it never gave me trouble); however there is an option particularly related to DV, and that you mustn't use. Persevere.
No this isn't a V8 bug. I presume you're familiar with the restoring sync when image and audio has been shifted relative to each other, but that this isn't your problem (audio track would be pink).
Videojohn wrote on 4/10/2008, 6:23 AM
Ok thank you very much for the help. I continue searching a way to fix the pb. Hope to find a solution soon.
Serena wrote on 4/10/2008, 6:21 PM
Really this is covered in the online manual. To capture HDV, go to options, preferences, video. Clear the checkbox "external video capture" , tick OK. Now go to file, capture, tick HDV.
blink3times wrote on 4/10/2008, 7:02 PM
From my experience, OOS during capture usually ends up as a computer issue. Too many processes running in the background.... drives badly fragmented... drives not dma enabled (and in fact, xp WILL automatically drop your drives back to POE if it senses a problem while in dma mode)... stuff like that. Something in the machine that causes a slow enough or erratic enough data rate so that dropped frames start occuring. The more dropped frames, the further OOS you will go.

But you should first make sure that this is actually an OOS problem and not just a latency problem with the sound card. Sometimes things APPEAR to be OOS but in actual fact the audio card is simply reacting slow for what ever reason. Vegas draws your peaks and therefore it's pretty easy to verify the OOS by visually matching the peaks to a foot slamming on the floor or something similar (Although with a sound card latency problem the OOS is pretty constant straight across and does not get bigger with time)
Videojohn wrote on 4/11/2008, 12:49 AM
The point is that the audio peaks do not match the picture, so it is not a playback problem but is concretly out of synch. I also discovered that the audio stram is shorter than the video stream, thus it seems normal that the footage is out of synch. THe strange thing is that some footage captured in the same conditions is ok Only some tapes are out of synch. Why?
blink3times wrote on 4/11/2008, 2:58 AM
That's usually dropped frames. I did a capture the other day with HDVsplit and had some dropped frames. Not sure why I was dropping frames on that tape... maybe dirty heads. or the tape is getting old, The audio was a bit shorter (or a bit longer depending on which way you look at it) in the scenes with the dropped frames. However it did correct itself on the next scene.
mark-woollard wrote on 4/11/2008, 3:29 AM
Possible solutions:

Get Vegas' HDV capture working. The manual provides sufficient guidance here.

Update your HD Link to the latest version. You can download a 15-day free trial to confirm if this is your problem.

Your system is marginal (slow CPU, faulty memory, inadequate sound card) and needs either updated drivers or a hardware upgrade (you haven't posted your system specs in your profile so it's difficult to know where you might start)

Try capturing from a different camera.

It seems to be a problem unique to your system/setup and not a problem with Vegas. Good luck and let us know if you solve this one.

Videojohn wrote on 4/11/2008, 4:06 AM
Ok, I succeed to capture through Vegas (without using connect HD 2.1) .
The files captured are m2t and their are much lighter than the avi intermediate files created by connect HD. Does this mean that the quality of these files is lower than the .avi?
Laurence wrote on 4/11/2008, 6:45 AM
Actually, it's higher.
Videojohn wrote on 4/11/2008, 7:18 AM
I the uqality is higher, why the "wheight" of the file should be smaller, comparing to the .avi?

Does thiese files are easily editable with Vegas 8 or should they be first rendered in .avi intermediate before editing? (Vegas is crashing a lot since I capture some of these files and put them in the timeline!)
mark-woollard wrote on 4/12/2008, 1:09 PM
With avi, every frame is "full" (my technical term here). With m2t, only the first and 15th frame in every second are "full". They're called I frames. The remaining 28 frames only contain enough information to note the changes in the image from the previous I-frame. That is, a lot of information is "thrown away". It's a clever way to keep file sizes small, yet retain high quality.

The challenge with m2t is with multi-generation rendering. It starts to "fall apart" much more quickly than multi-generation rendering of Cineform's avi.

Normally, m2t's are easily edited in Vegas and should only be first rendered to an avi if you're planning on doing multi-generation rendering. However Vegas will crash if your m2t clips (or any clips) are corrupt. My own suspicion is that the clips recorded by your camera are somehow "off spec". Therefore, I'm not sure if you will succeed in getting Vegas to render them to intermediates.

Good luck.