I agree with Cold.

I get asked this same question a lot by people who want to get into home recording. It's always a matter of available budget (isn't everything?), but in essence there are three targets to aim for:

A) I just want to have fun and spend as little as possible.
B) I want to record with decent quality, AND spend as little as possible.
C) I want to record with superior quality, AND eventually make money to pay for it all.

As far as (A) goes, you're already there. You have Vegas, and you can buy a decent performing mic (omnidirectional 1/4" input) and get better quality than the crappy little condenser mic that comes with your Audigy. But you won't be able to do any better with that card - regardless of what people say about SB cards, it's simply a matter of available input-types and their quality: both are limited. Still, if you're just farting around, you should have a ball with your current setup. You can get a better performing (and stable) card than the SB for about the same amount of money, but as Cold said, there are lots of threads in here about that - just do a search on "Audigy" and or "SB Live" and you'll find PLENTY of, um, opinions. :)

If option (B) is your target, then I always recommend a fairly zippy computer, at least 500 MB of RAM, a separate 7200 RPM hard drive purely for media, and some kind of break-out box for your audio I/O. I recommend the latter since such devices typically have a higher variety of inputs (ie: pre-amped XLR, 1/4", SPDIF, etc), that are, more importanly, of much higher quality. And XLR type inputs typically allow you to use high quality, phantom powered condenser mics, too. There are lots of choices, running anywhere from $300 - $1000 for good equipment: Delta 1010, Edirol UA-5 or UA-1000, Aardvark Q10, MOTU 828 are all great choices for under $1000 USD, so consider this cost in addition to your PC's cost. Building your DAW at this level also gives you the option of several inputs, providing REAL flexibility in what and how you can record.

If option (C) is your goal, then you have to go through (A) and (B) anyway just so you know HOW to do it, and what you need to do it well. The sky is the limit, but knowing how to use it is the real challenge.

Hope this helps.

momo

Not an omnidirectional mic. A cardioid is most appropriate for general use. A good versatlite one is a Rode NT3 (much better than harsh equiv AKG C1000).

Then you need to get the mic into the PC. No domestic/gamer soundcard mic inputs are anything other than totally crappy. You either need a good quality semi-pro soundcard and use the lLine input (with a mic preamp or small mixer), or one of the new audio interfaces that includes a line input or two plus *balance* mic input.

geoff

I agree with you Geoff on going cardioid (unidirectional), over omni, but not nescessarilly on going condenser over dynamic. Not in any way putting down the Rode mic, they do sound good, if a little dark. Personally I use shure small diaphram condensers. But going with a good solid dynamic like a shure 57 means you don't need phantom power (or batteries), and background noise is less of an issue(especially if your recording right next to your computer).
A Shure 57 is also a good live mic, meaning it can do double duty for recording and stage. Granted, a small condenser picks up much more detail, sounds more realistic, and has more "space " , but if your only farting around with recording, it is more than acceptable to use a dynamic. I can think of at least 2 or 3 occaisions in the last year that scratch recordings done in my control room with the monitors up and the singer holding a 57 in his hand have ended up being the final main vox on cds. I'd be truly suprised to get away with this with a condenser. Another thing is once you start getting more serious, purchase a condenser at that point (or better yet a pair) and now you'll be able to pick between your different mics for the sound you want, by the way, every major studio in the world has at least a couple of 57s kicking around so you don't have to worry about out growing it.
Steve S

Look, I hate to disagree with everyone, but let me say that you are probably going to find the Audigy all you're going to want, or need. I currently only have a soundblaster live!, and while I know it is nowhere near proffesional, I still get acceptable results out of it. I make cds of my band's music, and when I give them out to people, often they mistake them for studio recordings. That's not that I think they sound like studio recordings! I comparison to another card the soundblasters may not be so hot, but for personal use, and their price, they're great. And you've got it now, so you may as well keep using it until you find you want something better.

A $100 mic will do you fine, you might even be able to pick up something second-hand, and I don't see any reason why you would need a mixer. I have a medium quality mic, about $400, and I just plug it in to my sound card, and when I bought it, everyone told me that I'd need a preamp, or a mixer, that I couldn't just plug it straight in to the back of my card. I almost believed them! Once again, you're not going to get completely proffessional results this way, but the sound quality will no doubt be more than acceptable to your ears. Your speakers should be fine too.

Thanks for all the input. As I said, we are just starting out. rgdbv- what kind of mic do you use? Is it a dynamic or condenser? It seems as though the condenser mics are the way to go to be able to get the range and proper tone of sax music. Now I need to find where to get what I need. Any suggestions on stores or models to look at? Sales people are relatively worthless with helping make the right choices.

I use a Rode NT3, which is a nice condenser microphone. I actually said $400, but that's Australian dollars, I have seen that mic as cheap as $160 American Dollars if you shop around a bit. It's a good general purpose mic really. This is from a review on the web for it:

"This is an amazing mic for the money. It's frequency response is absolutely flat, the mic electronics have very low self noise and the output is at least 15db hotter than dymanic mics. The hypercardiod response is flat across the frequency band. You can get a fair bit of gain without feedback from nearby monitors Playback of recording made with the mic are crisp and clear with accurate sounding acoustic bass"

Hope that's of some help to you.

So you just use the microphone plugged into your mic input on your sound card without any mixer? If so, you must use the mic with a battery, correct? What kind of mic stand/holder do you use? On one web site, it recommended buying a shockmount with that microphone.

Your'e not alone. I got a SB2 and it's actually worse that the SB1 I had.
It does work good for games and DVD's and stuff. Just not recording. I added a second sound card to my PC (M audio delta 44) for recording. I use my SB2 for playback, but not the recording playback, just games and stuff.
M audio was cheaper (just over $200) and makes better recordings. They might make a M audio card that does surround also, I think they might.
Your quality of recording will improve with the more money you spend. Just try to stay away from Creative SB stuff for recording. A good mike starts around $90 and goes up to $2000 or more.
It a depends on how good you want to sound.

If you use an NT3 (or similar mic) and go directly to the soundcard you will need some type of adapter. Any decent mic will have a balanced output - but the consumer soundcard will have an unbalanced input in most cases. This does not mean you cannot directly connect the mic using some type of simple adapter, but you could run into problems. I'm not sure exactly how rgdbv is doing it, but whatever he is doing apparently works.

I would still recommend using a small mixer into your soundcard line input though. You can pick up a Behringer MX602A for about $60 and the mic pre will be far better than the soundcard mic input. This would also give you a great deal more flexibility and will eliminate the need to use battery powered condenser mics. If you ever decide to upgrade to a more *pro* soundcard, you can still use the mixer. These cheap Behringer boards are really nice considering how little they cost.

rgdbv, how do you hook up your mic (Rode) to your computer? According to the reply from fishtank,I can't go directly in to the mic input on the soundcard and I need a special adapter. Someone else uses a SB card for recording his piano/vocal music and also says he has gotten really good results. So, even though many have replied telling me to buy a new sound card, I'm going to stick with what I have for now. When my son gets more advanced and likes doing the recording/editing, then we can think of new sound cards. For now I just want a decent mic with better sound than through the supplied computer mic.

Connecting a balanced mic directly to the sound card input isn't difficult, as long as the mic is either Dynamic (needs no power supply) or is Electret with it's own battery. Official adapters are available, but usually with a 1/4" plug instead of the 1/8" plug that the sound card accepts. Of course, you can also get a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter.

If you're handy with a soldering iron, go to your local radio shack and purchase two things. 1) a shielded cable with a mono 1/8" plug on one end; what's on the other end doesn't matter, just take the cheapest one they have in stock. 2) a female XLR connector. Both of these items should be in the $4 to $5 range. Cut the shielded cable about 6" or so from the 1/8" plug, strip jacket and shield back to expose about 3/8" of the center insulator, then strip about 1/8" of the center conductor. Solder the center conductor to pin 2 of the XLR jack and the shield to pins 1 and 3. This adapter lets you connect the XLR cable from the mic to the mic input on the sound card. This adapter should be kept as short as possible, but if you really need to have the XLR jack in front of the computer where you can reach it, then you can go up to 20" without introducing too much noise. Shorter is better though.

You shouldn't need a soldering iron or any of that crap lol. I never needed that. I'll tell you what I use. I have a short cable, about a metre or less in length, one end is 3.5mm male, which fits into the sound-card, the other end of the cable is 6.5mm female, into which the microphone will plug into. All the guys that the music store told me I couldn't do this lol, which goes to show what the "experts" know. I've never had any problem with this set-up. I don't know if this works with all microphones, but it works with my Rode NT3, which as I said, is a great mic for it's price. Here's some specs on it in case you were interested.

"Stylish and modern, the NT3 is the latest in microphone technology Purpose built for studio, stage and location work.

The NT3 is made from the finest components to deliver results demanded by engineers and musicians alike.

The NT3 features battery and phantom power and its low noise makes it hard to match.

The Rode NT3 -when superior sound quality is demanded.

Features

• Transformerless output
• Internal capsule shock mounting
• Heavy duty Cast metal/satin nickel body
• High immunity to RF interference
• High strength welded and heat treated mesh head
• Premium quality surface mount components
• True condenser (externally biased)
• Hypercardioid polar response
• Full frequency response
• Battery status LED indicator
• 12 months parts and labour guarantee"

I have not heard an NT3 but I do have a pair of NT5's and think they are wonderful for the money. They sound somewhat close to a Neuman KM184 which are much more expensive. I would assume the NT3 would be a good choice for what you are doing.

Chienworks did a good job explaining how to make you own adapter. The bottom line is that you need to convert the XLR connector on the mic to the 3.5 mm plug in the soundcard. The XLR connector has three pins - ground (pin 1), hot or + (pin 2) and cold or - (pin 3). Typically, you would tie pins 1 and 3 together as your ground (the shield of the cable) and use pin 2 to carry the signal. This will convert the balanced signal from the mic to unbalanced. Sounds like rgdbv has a mic cable the does this - XLR male to 1/4", and then uses an adapter to plug into the soundcard. The main problem is that running unbalanced will be much more susceptible to noise and the longer the cable the worse it will be. Also, you should hear a difference using the Behringer mixer in sound quality and have the benefit of a balanced line to the mic.

You may be perfectly happy not using a small mixer with your setup. I guess I just think of the $60 as *pocket change* and worth it for the improved sound quality, flexibility, immunity to noise, and freedom to use longer cables with virtually any mic available.

rgdbv- the so called *experts* at the music store are not usually experts. They are most likely NOT electrical engineers and if they were, they would probably be working a better job for more money. What you are doing works and may be fine for some people, but I personally think spending a few extra dollars for the cheap mixer is worth it. When I got into recording, these inexpensive mixers were not available and the cheap stuff that was available wasn't so cheap and sounded like crap. It is amazing what kind of gear you can get for very little money these days compared to 10-15 years ago. I now have preamps that cost thousands for 1 or 2 channels, but the difference between them and the Behringer mixer is probably not as great as the difference between the soundcard mic input and a Behringer MX602A into the line in.

Just my two cents......

hmm hosa makes a xlr to 1/8" cable that sells for 10$ here in canada.... I use it to plug condenser mics to my camera and it works very well...

just a note, I started with a behringer mx602a and a soundblaster and have been very happy with the mixer, makes recording much much easier...

Nat, out of curiousity, what type of mic do you use? You said that you have a Soundblaster card, do you plug the mixer into the mic port or where? Please explain your setup. Thanks

I don't have that setup anymore, but when I used that, I had my mixer plugged into the line in of my soundcard using a double 1/4" cable at one end that goes stereo 1/8" at the other side.
As for microphones, I have an Audio-Technica at3035 which is a large diaphragme condenser mic, it's about 199 $ US. I also have a pair of at33a microphones which are small condenser mic that can be battery operated. However, I started with a SM57 dynamic mic and I got great results in the past with it, using my mixer. I still use it to record bass cabs or snares. If you want a condenser mic, the nt3 is a good choise as mentioned here. The big advantage of using a mixer is that you bypass the crappy mic input of the soundblaster, so you get much better noise results using a mixer.
You could also check some USB devices by m-audio, they have a device with 2 mic pres that connects in your usb port, and it's pretty cheap.

FWIW, I believe the responses here are concentrating too much on mics. Balanced is better than unbalanced, uni better than omni, condenser better than line, good ones cost good money, etc. It seems to me from the responses here that joejon really wants to know the best way to CONNECT a mic to a computer - in which case, the mic is largely immaterial other than ensuring you have the right kind of input for the kind of mic you ultimately end up acquiring. That's why, in my initial post, I recommended several I/O devices and the large array of input-types they offer.

Most of the devices I listed offer XLR inputs, phantom power (Look ma! No batteries!), 24 bit/96 KHz depths and rates, ASIO, and a pile of other neato features that add a LOT of potential to how and what you can record, all for well-under 1000 US. 2-channel Edirol UA-5s are getting cheaper by the minute now that the UA-1000 is out, and they do all of the above (mostly).

joejon - I'm wondering if you're confusing the terms mixer and I/O device. By "mixer" I picture a device with several input channels with individual gain, EQ, volume, pan, and effects controls and one stereo output. If you are thinking in the same terms, then forget about a mixer - it will just add noise and doesn't offer anything in return. If you are recording one track at a time (and with an SB I can't imagine you doing anything else, or at the most no more than two (L/R), and only that after a few trips to Radio Shack) there's no point: Vegas already gives you that kind of control over your input signal. In other words, an external mixer is redundant. The only reason you might want to use a mixer would be if you are recording several performers at once in a single take to a single track - this of course limits what you can ultimately do with the results, but that's another discussion.

Other than that, set your levels using Windows input level control and Vegas' track-level display, and then add your EQ and FX after the fact with the wonderful non-linear convenience that programs like Vegas provide. Don't think of using an external mixer to get more inputs, because, ultimately, your SB still only has one line-in. Think instead of getting a different 'sound card' (I/O) with many inputs - the devices I mentioned all do, and you can find out a lot more about each one by searching this forum. Then you can record several sources at once that can all go to individual tracks, thereby increasing your creative options and the potential quality of the finished product. This is about HOW to multitrack record, and at this point, IMHO, that's more important to the Initial Poster than identifying the best mic out there.

-mo

The recommendation for the Behringer MX602A mixer was mainly for use as a low-cost mic pre to feed the line in of his SB card. This is NOT redundant and should be of good use to him. If he wants to wire a battery powered condenser straight into the mic in of the SB card he can do that - I just thought it was worth the few extra bucks for him to pick up the mixer.

I understand that many people have no mixer in their setup and are just fine with that. I personally think that external analog mixers are extremely useful in most DAW systems though. There may be times when you want to submix several inputs to one digital track and a mixer can be put to good use for headphone mixes for the band etc.
You can also use the mixer to A/B your monitors between the computer and an external CD or DAT player among other things. The mixer would also allow him to record two tracks simultaneously (using the L/R of the line in fed from two outputs of the mixer) versus only one using the mic in.

I don't mean to start an argument - but making blanket statements that an external mixer is redundant is not a good thing to do. Some people may have no use for it, but others may benefit quite a bit. There are lots of people here just starting out and we should watch how we word our advice. I would never tell anyone they HAVE to have a external mixer with their DAW, but I would also tell them what advantages it could offer.

fishtank - my reply was not to disagree with your post, sorry if you took it that way. Sure, there are uses for an external mixer - you may notice we both referenced sub-mixing, obviously there are more. The Behringer MX602A is a nice, inexpensive piece of kit, and if it had a D/A converter, it would serve the same function as the devices I mentioned - for that matter, from what I've read, the MOTU 828 is also a stand alone digital mixer, albeit without the convenient, finger-friendly knobs and sliders of the MX602, or most analog mixers for that matter..

My point is that joejon asked how to connect a mic to his computer. In my opinion, you can't do that with an analog mixer, since an analog mixer by definition does not have a D/A converter, and is therefore not an input device for a DAW. One connects an analog mixer to a digital I/O device that's attached to the computer through a PCI card, USB, or Firewire connection. Obviously, products are available that allow both mixing and D/A conversion... the Tascam FW-1884 comes to mind, someone else here in the thread mentioned their smaller model as a nice choice, but these are more expensive than the alternatives I mentioned.

Secondly, some prefer to mix in hardware, some in software. I am of the latter group, since, IMO, it's the most effective method in terms of cost and quality when multitracking on a budget. And, all my "mixer" settings like pan, EQ, input, and volume (everything except input gain, basically) gets saved with the project file. Does that mean I'm doing it right and everyone else is doing it wrong? Hardly. It's just what I prefer.

In the IP's case, I stand by my statement: it doesn't matter how nice a mixer he uses in front of a Sound Blaster... I'm sure the MX602 has wonderful preamps that aren't even in the same league as the SB's noisy, pro-sumer quality preamps, but unfortunately he'll still need to deal with them by running the output of the MX602 into the SB's mic-in. He'll lower the noise floor a little by using the SB's stereo line-in instead, but its quality isn't much better - I know this because I've tried it. Therefore, an analog mixer upstream of a Soundblaster's D/A conversion is not going to improve the S/N ratio at all - it'll only make it worse... even if the quality of the mixer is so good that its noise floor hardly noticeable, a little noise + a little more noise still equals more than you started with.

Concentrate on getting quality I/O first, then think about mics and mixers. :)

Admittedly, I'm not an SB fan - I've certainly made that clear in the past, but only because I've been there and I've done that, and have the scars to prove it.

As far as blanket statements are concerned, I don't believe I've made any broad generalizations - my post is my opinion, and unless I've missed something really important, I still believe I'm allowed to post that.

Okay, here's what I would suggest. Spend around $400 for the next three items new.... you'll be glad you did:

1. Echo Mia/Midi sound card - $199.00
2. Cascade M-20 microphone - $129.00
3. Art Tube MP mic pre - $79.00

The prices I quoted are from my dear friend Mike Chiriac (the owner) of Bayview Pro Audio:

BayviewProAudio.Com

Tell him TMR sent ya' and he'll take very good care of you. He's the guy who first sold me on Sonic Foundry!

Ok, buy a Behringer MX802 mixer...under $100.
Then buy a Shure Beta 57 mic, and a windscreen, about $130.
yer done.

Is it the best?? hell no...but it will do just fine, i've done it.
Also...i have a SB audigy card...it's fine.
Or for $400 you can pick up a used Echo Layla 8 in/out card w/interface.
Awesome...