videoITguy wrote on 6/10/2014, 8:30 AM
Please be specific on how VegasPro12 version build 770 was unusable for you.. That is exactly the point that this forum will have to answer your post.

Build 770 beta = VegasPro13.
24Peter wrote on 6/10/2014, 11:41 AM
FWIW Coming from VP10e - which was rock solid on my system - VP13 (310) has been good with two small issues: sometimes when I exit/close the program I get an error that VP13 has stopped working and asks me to send a report. But it doesn't seem to affect my already saved .veg files and I am closing the program anyway. Also occasionally when I go to render a file I'll get a "parameters unsupported" error. Usually the second try to render with the same settings works.

Titler Pro3 does have some issues on my system. I now routinely save, close and reopen VP13 for any projects with TitlerPro3 titles before rendering and that seems to clear the hangs I was getting while rendering. Previewing and rendering TitlerPro3 titles is slow & painful on my system.

I work primarily with AVCHD source files and render to MC or SONY AVC .mp4's. I add basic FX like levels or color correction, simple transitions, and do at most, two or three layers of video. I have an older system with a very low end video card so don't use GPU rendering at all.
Entilza wrote on 6/10/2014, 11:45 PM
Thanks @24Peter

@videoITguy, I didn't want to say too much about my history as I didn't want to jump in sounding overly negative. But its a necessary question.

For v12, renders from my project files (imported from v11 and from new) were plagued with random black frames, and flashing/flickering images stolen from all parts of the edit. eg, a 24 frame (1 second) sequence might have 20 frames out of place, each frame different, being parts of a composite, or off centred, or parts from another take all together. A flickering psychotropic mess every time. I don't know if this happened on 770, as I had given up on 12 by then (12 required me to convert my Veg files, so I didn't commit given the lack of a usable output).

For v11 (my "work horse"), I have random crashes every 10 minutes during editing, but mostly plagued with dropped frames during the render and renders that never end (ie: they crash but don't report as such) for all output formats that I use - mp4, avi, mpg2.

System: 12 Gig triple channel ram on Win 7 64 currently, but issues have been across multiple systems.

Files: I typically receive 32 bit 2K and 4K anamorphic MOV ProRes 4444 files (yeah, I know, not a fav format for PC) and uncompressed AVI files. But the problems appear to occur for both formats. My timelines can feature typically more than 30 tracks, perhaps up to 5 of which are Video for various composites, but the problems seem to start in earnest after a project grows beyond 3 or 4 minutes. Renders on video card or CPU all have the same result. Video card is a touch faster at rendering.

I haven't made a successful Vegas render for a large project (>5 mins) without nesting the Veg file since version 10.e. Nesting is a must for me and works mostly, but is no guarantee.

From what I read here, the guys on AVCHD and XDCAM files seem to be having a much better time of it.

So with the above in mind - has v13 shown more stability for large projects not based on AVCHD and XDCAM?
ushere wrote on 6/11/2014, 1:04 AM
you don't seem to be having much luck with vegas are you?

i've only really had major problems with 11, prior and post that most of MY problems (that is, not known bugs) revolved around gpu, nb titler, and bad media.

13 seems quite stable, though my present, somewhat complex tl will render to everything but mpg2 - however, i can do a tl render to dvd...

i think a lot of problems seem to hinge on video card / driver set ups. eg. the problem above disappeared with the latest nvidia driver

given the present state of ALL the nle's it's a shot in the dark at the best of times.

life was much simpler with dv and basic fx ;-)
MarkHolmes wrote on 6/11/2014, 2:46 AM
13 has been much much more stable, for me, than anything since Version 6 or 7. I've been using Vegas since I believe V4.
Entilza wrote on 6/11/2014, 6:17 AM
Thanks for the info guys.

Well, I just gave it a shot on a 2:30 segment of a V11 .veg. It was black framing all over the place, and then crashed (with report to Sony) after about 2 mins of render time (perhaps 10 seconds or less of rendered material?).

I haven't tried the nested Veg yet, but looks like nothing has changed for me. :-(
ChrisDolan (SCS) wrote on 6/11/2014, 11:16 AM
@24Peter, I haven't heard about that "parameters unsupported" issue before. Can you offer any more details?

As for the crash on exit, that bug is DRIVING ME CRAZY! I've been working on it off-and-on for 4 months, and it seems impossible to reproduce reliably. The good news is that it's totally harmless because the crash happens after we close all projects, media, and preferences but of course it's ugly.
NormanPCN wrote on 6/11/2014, 11:38 AM
@Chris Dolan (SCS) The good news is that it's totally harmless because the crash happens after we close all projects, media, and preferences but of course it's ugly.

Chris, Thank you for this information. I had never seen any ill effects from that crash, but knowledge is soothing.
Laurence wrote on 6/11/2014, 12:38 PM
I'm sure there will be lots of variation between systems, but for me, V11 was so unstable that I never successfully could use it. V12 crashed every single day but at least I could get stuff done between the crashes. V13 is completely stable. There are some bugs, but mine are the same as everyone elses and there are no show stoppers. I am very happy with this version.
Entilza wrote on 6/11/2014, 5:22 PM
@Laurence - I do wonder if my V13 experience wasn't negatively impacted by the project's VEG file being "previously broken" in V11. I kind of doubt it (surely a veg file is just a glorified EDL with a few more options/details?)

How many of you guys are working with MOVs as source material?
John_Cline wrote on 6/11/2014, 6:06 PM
"How many of you guys are working with MOVs as source material?"

I avoid MOV files like the plague. In my experience, they are nothing but trouble. Fortunately, I very rarely have to exchange files with MAC folks and when I do, I generally use Cineform wrapped in a MOV container. The HDLink utility that comes with the paid-for Cineform (Studio Premium) easily rewraps MOV<>AVI.
videoITguy wrote on 6/11/2014, 6:38 PM
IN MY Opinion very few uses of .mov containerized files should be in the workflow of a typical Vegas user. Recall that only a few short years ago when JVC was promoting the first groundbreaking digital video camcorder designs for pros - the only valid workflow was to record in .mov and deliver to a Mac based editor. So the issue of .mov workflow has a very long history.

Now granted .mov is just a container - and what it holds is the most important aspect to video editing. So many variants have now been offered that it boggles the mind - BUT this is NOT native editing for the history of Vegas. There are certain .mov container codec combinations that will work in a Windows OS system - but it is a very problematic issue for the most part.
Entilza wrote on 6/11/2014, 6:55 PM
@John_Cline, the MOV/PC hate relationship thing is long established. :-) I used to have Cineform as part of my workflow when v11 was new (maybe even v10 too), but had the same stability problems, so much so that I could no longer see the point in using it. So I stopped and nothing really changed for me.

I'm wondering if it is perhaps something to do with the sheer volumes of data and numbers of files being used. My last major Vegas project had (estimated) around 300-400 2K 32 bit video files that are mostly several gig each, hundreds more audio files, and each video clip needed to be desqueezed in the edit to bring it to its natural 2.35:1 aspect ratio. And then there's chains and chains of plug-ins for the grade.

For me, something broke in Vegas at the time I went to HD, which was about the same time Vegas also went to 64 bit. I know the team have done a ton of work to trap and eliminate 64 bit memory issues, but some core issues keep existing for me.
Robert_NY wrote on 6/11/2014, 7:28 PM
The crash on exit is indeed strange. I've had it happen on some very simple and basic test projects and not happen with some longer projects with more complex effects going on.
24Peter wrote on 6/11/2014, 9:37 PM
[I]@24Peter, I haven't heard about that "parameters unsupported" issue before. Can you offer any more details?[/I]

Not really - it happens randomly and infrequently when I go to render a file from what I can tell. First time it happened I saved a custom SONY AVC template that appeared unsaved but which I had actually saved moments before (which I guess is another little annoying bug - saving a custom template is not enough to stop the (*) from appearing next to it - need to save custom templates twice.) The other 2-3 times the "parameters unsupported" error came up I just tried to render again and it worked.

Two other little VP13 annoyances: I often overwrite a rendered file while testing output. The render as dialog asks me twice if I want to overwrite a file that already exists: once when I select the already existing filename in the search box and again when I hit save. The other thing that comes up randomly is sometimes when I do the aforementioned double affirmation of wanting to overwrite an existing file, I end up with double extension as in "mymovie.mp4.mp4". Personally I am not a big fan of the new(?) render as template dialog - prefer what we had in VP10.
NCARalph wrote on 6/13/2014, 9:39 AM
VP11 is by far the best for me. The first few releases were pretty bad, but it's been rock solid for me on later releases.

I haven't used VP12

VP13 is fine except for GPU rendering which crashes a lot and is slower than VP11. GPU stabilization is pretty much unusable on VP13 it's so slow compared to VP11.

As it stands I've gone back to VP11 and am hoping Sony will fix the GPU problems.
MarkHolmes wrote on 6/13/2014, 12:41 PM
So strange to hear people who have had better luck on V11 or V12 than V13.
Vegas Pro 13 has brought me back to Vegas it's so stable, even with GPU acceleration and rendering. Maybe it's my combination of hardware... Running a 2010 MacPro with a newly installed AMD Radeon 7950 Mac Edition and doing all editing in BootCamp....