Status on Divx

jeffy82 wrote on 7/15/2002, 12:08 PM
Dennis,
I know you don't like hearing it repeatedly, but judging from past experience at SF and other software companies, if we (your customers) don't complain, we don't get heard, and SF thinks that the problem/need has gone away, so a solution never materializes.

I understand that SF does not officially support Divx 5.02. Ya, so???? Linksys doesn't support MAC, but it they work very hard making sure that it does. From the few forum messages that dance around that subject, SF does not give any indication whether it ever will support it. I use Divx heavily, for it's speed, compatibility with Virtual Dub, for filtering purposes, it's superb compression, VBR and for other reasons, which make it the ideal codec for my needs. Since I did buy VV for the purpose of Video Editing. I don't think it's an unreasonable request for a status update on Divx compatibility, and I would appreciate a little more than "were working with the Divx people".

I can't speak for all your customers, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who uses video editing in their businesses. And when Divx plays a critical role, its hard to plan projects and streaming techniques when we SF's only comment to the word DIVX is a schrug of the shoulders. I hate to think that I've wasted my money on a product that is no longer useful to me.

Is DIVX REALLY that difficult to work with? REALLY?? As cheesehole has indicated in the past "Divx is Buggy" but when asked - never clarifies what exactly is buggy? Is buggy what they call it when a software company pulls back a version release? Like VV 3.0B?

Is VV That different from other products???? Do VV programmers not understand Divx? or is it the power that be in SF havn't given it the go ahead? Premiere can deal with it.

If the VV programmers are still stumped, they may want to pickup the phone and talk to some programmers who HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL Importing Divx video Files. It shouldn't be a long distance phone call. Have them talk to the people who wrote SoundForge, you've hear of that program? Right? Aparently, they have figured out how to do it.

Jeffy82@aol.com

Comments

SonyDennis wrote on 7/15/2002, 1:14 PM
Well then.

SonicEPM would be the one to respond to this, but he's on a well earned vacation, so I'll try.

You said "I don't think it's an unreasonable request for a status update on Divx compatibility, and I would appreciate a little more than 'were working with the Divx people.'"

If you only wanted a status update, why didn't you just ask for one, instead of raking us over the coals?

Perhaps SonicEPM can give you a status update when he's back, but I can tell you that we're not going to promise anything with respect to DiVX, until it's a done deal and ready for you to download. We've been burned before by even mentioning that we *might* be doing something, people take that as a promise, and if we don't deliver exactly what they were expecting in a short period of time, suddenly we've backed out of a promise. So, we're understandably tight-lipped about everything, and you'll hear about it when it's a done deal.

With DiVX in particular, it was never a supported format. I heard it used to work a lot better until they changed something in the latest version. Even though it's not a supported format, to my knowledge, we've opened a dialog with them, so that we can hopefully better support the format in the future. I'm sorry if that process is not going fast enough for you, but we also have lots of other things we're working on.

By "buggy", I believe what cheesehole was getting at, is that DiVX is a bi-directionally compressed format wedged into an architecture that was never designed to support such a thing. If it was a "clean" AVI codec, it would just work, just like all the other AVI codecs do. This is no fault of the DiVX programming team, it's amazing that it works as well as it does, and I have a lot of respect for that. But certainly, when it's asked to perform just like every other AVI codec can, some cog somewhere catches a spring and the whole thing comes apart. I might ask why you think the problem lies in Vegas 3, which is just using standard AVI API's to access a video file. Have you also asked the DiVX folks why their codec doesn't work in Vegas (and other programs, I might add)? Have they made any promises as to when it will? Perhaps they'll tell you that they're talking to us, and they'll let you know when it's working <g>.

I'm glad that Sound Forge handles DiVX correctly for you. What version are you using? SF 5 and prior used an older AVI engine of ours. SF 6 is using exactly the same AVI reader as Vegas 3.

As far as pulling the Vegas 3.0b update, what would you recommend we do when we've posted a tested version and find a significant bug afterwards? We pulled the update, fixed the bug, and posted 3.0c. What would you have done differently?

I appreciate that you need to know when DiVX is going to work with Vegas 3 so that you can plan your projects and streaming techniques, but would you rather be told honestly that we don't know, or be given a promise, with nothing backing it up?

Judging from your past postings and your website, you seem to know your stuff, so if you'd like to continue this discussion in a less abrasive fashion, perhaps we could involve you in beta-testing any changes we make to our AVI reader with respect to DiVX support.

///d@
BillyBoy wrote on 7/15/2002, 7:02 PM
You can't win for trying Dennis. I think SonicFoundy has one of the most responsive and talented teams that really try to help people in the forum. Contrast that to say Microsoft's policy of "help" (yuck) or Roxio (holding nose) which uses a moderated newslist and gets heavly censored.

Just watch, someone one of these days is going to complain about the color of the box Vegas Video comes in. How dare SoFo pick yellow and orange! Then someone else may wonder Why in the heck did you call it Vegas Video and a few audio geeks just get their shorts in-a-bunch simply because its called Vegas Video and they don't do video. LOL!



kkolbo wrote on 7/15/2002, 7:28 PM
Well said.
Cheesehole wrote on 7/15/2002, 7:44 PM
>>>As cheesehole has indicated in the past "Divx is Buggy" but when asked - never clarifies what exactly is buggy?

I don't remember saying that... but maybe it was a long time ago. DivX 4 when it was first introduced was pretty buggy. I haven't used the new versions.
BillyBoy wrote on 7/15/2002, 8:46 PM
Didn't Divx start out as some hack of some Microsoft codec?

What I'd like to see an implemention of importing Real Media files directly into Vegas. I know you can go the convert to AVI route in preprossing, but that's such a pain.
SonyDennis wrote on 7/15/2002, 9:05 PM
> Didn't Divx start out as some hack of some Microsoft codec?
The first version was a hack to use the WMV codec in AVI. The newer versions are actually a bona-fide codec.

> What I'd like to see an implemention of importing Real Media files directly into Vegas.
It's technically possible, but Real (the company) does not allow it. Sorry.

///d@
BillyBoy wrote on 7/16/2002, 12:14 AM
Not surprising with Real. They're real good about including spyware in their software though. LOL!
jeffy82 wrote on 7/16/2002, 12:40 PM
I feel like a heal. Sorry Cheesehole, I WAS WRONG! I mis-usered the quote. As I just typed your username, I started doing it again, I typed cheeseworks. DANG!! The message still bounces around my head. It wasn't you, it was Chienworks.
http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=98746.

Dennis/Sonic:
Sorry, in just re-reading my post, It was abrasive, and I appologize, its not my style, if you've seen any of my prior postings you would see.

Not that this is an excuse, but at the time I was really getting frustrated, that after purchasing Vegas, and not being able to use it for my purposes like I had in the past with Divx 3.11a, which quite honestly, I didn't think to try with Vegas 3.0C. Maybe that version does work? But to accidently open a divx 5.02 with SoundForge 5.0, and have it WORK, became the metaphoric straw that broke....

True, I had not asked the question directly. I don't always add my $.02 to every disagreement, but that doesn't mean I'm not agreeing with one side or another. And the questions that had ever been asked about divx....well you know the answers that have been given in the past. And my inqury, in thread #108883 as to a SF list or at least 1 graphics card that uses VFW to output the preview, as Vegas states is designed to do. But that request fell on deaf ears. I don't necessarily agree with them SF's answers, but, to SF's defense, I understand them.

Maybe the solution is that I have to learn more deeply what the heck an API is and how is Adobe Premiere, and Soundforge 5.0's API different, which makes it able to handle Divx 5.02. And maybe then I would be able to figure out how to make Vegas's Preview appear as Overlay, rather than the CPU intense Primary. This would then give me the ability to send the preview to my TV on the fly, without having to send out via firewire, Camcorder, TV etc.

I guess what my main craving has been revolves around an intermediate format smaller than Huffy for use between Virtual dubs unmatched filtering and Vegas. I would use DV, but it's interlaced, and for streaming I need progressive. Can DV be saved progressive? In Virtual Dub?

One again, Sorry for being a brillo pad, I would be willing to take part in any testing assistance you might need.

BillyBoy,
Be carefull what you wish for.....I don't think anyone wants to have to deal with the (pardon my..)Scum of the earth Real. (personal opinion) While their large scale Unicast streaming via Realserver is unmatched, so is their ability to screwup all of your application associations in the blink of an eye while you innocently instal RealOne Player. I'm surprised they didn't take over MS Word Docs Too, using a cheap RealWord program.
And some REAL words of warning. If anyone chooses to pay the $9.95/month extortion to them, you might choose a credit card you don't use frequently. As a friend learned, if you discontinue the premiere service, and then happen to not Uninstall the Premium player (which is easy to do), any use of it will reinstate the account, and they being charging again. Only solution is reporting the cardlost so they can't continue to use that account number. Typical. I hope they enjoy the plot they have dug for themselves.

thanks,
Jeffy82@aol.com

seeker wrote on 7/16/2002, 5:48 PM
Jeffrey,

> I would use DV, but it's interlaced, and for streaming I need progressive. Can DV be saved progressive? In Virtual Dub? <

There are a few progressive DV camcorders, so DV is not inherently interlaced. I don't know offhand if Virtual Dub can make the conversion for you.

-- Burton --
Luxo wrote on 7/17/2002, 1:33 AM
Actually, DV is inherently interlaced, but some cameras (like Canon XL and GL1) shoot progressive by recording a progressive image across both fields in each frame. This may still be a solution, if you have a couple grand to spare.

Luxo
SonyDennis wrote on 7/17/2002, 10:43 AM
The DV bitstream has a flag for progressive frames. You can render progressive DV from Vegas and use it in VirtualDub, if that's what you want to do, just go into project properties and tell it that it's progressive. You don't need a progressive camera to play it back, but you will need one to capture it.
///d@