Still photo image quality on DVD

fbx wrote on 12/9/2002, 2:07 AM
I'm a bit confused here. I read, on this msg board or another, that ULead Picture Show is best at slide shows because it uses full high res photos and does not convert them to mpg2 or some other vid mode. Now I'm wondering if this is hogwash, as it would seem the television would be the limiting factor in displaying still images (or any images, for that matter). the 720x480 for mpg2 should be adequate for all but the fancier TVs, yes?

Without a storyboard mode I don't find VidFactory ideal for slide shows, but the other things i've tried--ProShow Gold, Pinnacle, etc., don't seem ideal, either.

Is there one program that will give me the pictures at higher res than the others (ProShow, for example, converts to MPG2 and looks kind of crappy).

Thanks--

Comments

BillyBoy wrote on 12/9/2002, 12:14 PM
You're talking apples and oranges.

When you put together a collection of still images and render to a CD or DVD, where you see a progression of still images one after the other, perhaps with a sound track and transitions in-between you're really seeing a movie. That means that the CD or DVD needs to confirm to some standard or it isn't going to play on a DVD set top for example.

Applications vary as to what they accept as source files. Regardless, if you end up making a movie, then the bitrate (limited by what you medium you burn to) determines the final quality.

You can make a VCD or SVCD and get between fair to good overall quality. Burning to to a DVD will get you still higher quality.

You seem confused with resolution. If you are going to play back either off a computer monitor or TV screen remember that dots per inch is limited to the range of 88-96, for conventional monitors while printing out the same picture on a printer generating a hard copy will yield anywhere from 300-1200 DPI or higher allowing much more detail to show.

The advantage of displaying a slideshow especially on a large screen TV is the SIZE of the picture. When viewed at the proper distance and not attempting to craw into the picture tube, overall qualiity is very good.

Why you think you need a "storyboard" mode to make a slideshow is beyond me. You simply arrage the still images on the timeline as you want them to appear, decide how long each should appear, add transitions if desired and you're ready to reder the file.

I made countless slideshows with Vegas Video (Video Factory big brother) and because of the visual interest you can add by adding panning and zooming, you'd be hard pressed to find any appliaction that can do better.

If on the other hand you want more control where the viewer picks which images to view, then that's a different story and something perhaps like ACDSee would be more to your needs. Going that route, you can burn a CD as a data file and play off your compter. That would allow the images to remain at their original resolution, but you would give up background music and fancy transitions.
fbx wrote on 12/9/2002, 1:31 PM
Thanks for the confirmation. I'm getting that there is no way to show higher res (higher than TV quality, 720x480) on a TV using a homemade DVD. <y problem is that images look great on my 18" LCD DVI monitor 1280x1024, but after I've rendered and burned to VCD or DVD the quality of the images is decidedly reduced. I seem to remember some progs that make the VCD that do a better job of maintaining image quality, but maybe that's a figment. THe thing I saw about ULead's Picture Show, which I did not believe, was that it maintained the images at full resolution and somehow displayed them on a TV without turning them into a movie (ie, reduce resolution).

ANyway, thanks for your help. I'll give VF another try. Like the pan & scan stuff, but not sure it works for the (art) images I'm using. I'd like to be able to reduce all images slightly and have them sit on white or black ground, but that seems to be something done outside of VF.

cheers--
Grazie wrote on 12/9/2002, 1:58 PM
Go into Pan/Crop and you can "reduce" the size. You can create the background you wish, in say Photoshop, and use this as another backdrop. Lots to do. If you have a sense of graphic art/design you can get busy with text details. Truthfully, have a go and you will find most of what you have so far asked within this remarkable product. You can have the images "slickly" skating across the screen; holding in a position for a certain time and then moving on - Oh yes you can also add audio! The comments of the artist/s.

If you can think of it, it is mostly available. If you get lost, stick up a question here on the Forum.

Now where did I put my portfolio of ceramics? Oh no another project!

Grazie
Chienworks wrote on 12/9/2002, 2:03 PM
los santos, when you say you'd like them to sit on a ground, you mean you want to have a solid color border around the image, correct? This is very easy to achieve in VideoFactory. Go to Text & Backdrops / Solid Color. Drag the color you want to the Video track. Place the pictures on the Video Overlay track and use the Pan/Crop function to drag the crop line out larger than the image. This will reduce the size of the images smaller than the frame, and the colored background will show through around the edge. You can modify the color of the background as often as you wish, use gradients, other images, fade from one to the next (or any transition).

As far as resolution is concerned, if you are making a movie type of media file (MPEG, Quicktime, AVI, WMV, Real, etc.) then you will be limited to the standard resolutions that players of these formats can handle. Most of them max out at 640x480 or 720x480 (for NTSC). The program you referred to that keeps the images at full resolution does not create movie files. It creates a proprietary format that needs it's own player. Of course, most standard televisions only have 525 scan lines so any resolution beyond this would be lost.
IanG wrote on 12/9/2002, 4:00 PM
>Of course, most standard televisions only have 525 scan lines

Or 625 if you're using PAL or SECAM.

Ian G.
BillyBoy wrote on 12/9/2002, 4:37 PM
Just curious... anyone know how many lines the new plasma TV's support?
fbx wrote on 12/9/2002, 6:09 PM
is 1080i of current interlaced HD really 540 double, or is it, in fact, 1080?

Chienworks wrote on 12/9/2002, 6:14 PM
BillyBoy: i seem to recall seeing 1080 listed here and there. I suppose it depends upon the model though.
fbx wrote on 12/9/2002, 6:21 PM
Is there any way to do this as a batch action, that is, to do it once and have it apply to all the images through the slide show? I don't actually need, it turns out, a different background, I can just draw them out larger in the pan and zoom function, reducing them and elaving them on a black ground.

thanks
Grazie wrote on 12/9/2002, 6:54 PM
"Is there any way to do this as a batch action" No - however you can create your own Preset and then apply this to those you want. Hmmmm.... or you could produce all the "stills" as one long AVI then apply the sizing you want to this mega file - then cut away what you don't want. Say you have 50 stills in an avi clip -yeh? Put this up on the TL. Expand the clip. Play the clip - "sprinkle" MARKERS throughout the clip. Use the CNTRL+SHIFT+RT or LT highlighting the bits you don't want. Anything that's highlighted hit DELETE and the highlight bits go away - any good? I find the keystrokes options in VF very good for repetitive activity and production efficiency - IT MAKES IT EASY! (Grazie speak plain English!).

"I can just draw them out larger in the pan and zoom function" Again, make your own Presets and apply them to what you want. I've got heaps of Grazie Presets now. VF is very flexible.

Grazie
fbx wrote on 12/9/2002, 7:09 PM
this idea of the avi is great, but am i getting the best tresolution this way? i thought i was, but text looks pretty bad when I output avi, much worse that even MPG1. still, it's a great idea and helps greatly. i don't have the manual (well, i have the PDF version) so have not read about making my own presets. sounds as if that might work as well.

Anyway, thanks for both great ideas.

los
Grazie wrote on 12/10/2002, 12:44 AM
Los Santos -

"i don't have the manual (well, i have the PDF version) so have not read about making my own presets." - I don't believe there is a difference between the pdf and the hard copy I have.

"but am i getting the best tresolution this way?" - I believe that the resolution you have created will be the quality you will demonstrate on the finished product. Others to confirm.

"but text looks pretty bad when I output avi, much worse that even MPG1." - LS I don't see how this is possible. I've produce very crisp and IMHO a standard that looks great when outputted to a TV screen. PLease explain exactly the "low" quality text you are experiencing. Have you attempted to try this AVI on a TV screen? Are you only previewing the AVI within the Preview screen? It is my belief that you will not achieve the best option to make a judgement until you have it on a TV screen. Others to confim.

"Anyway, thanks for both great ideas." Yes - thank you. Positive feedback goes a long way with me. It's my pleasure. LS - I've spent many hours playing, in an "Idle Curiousity" way with this remarkable NLE. It has been an excellent way to train me for the Vegas Video upgrade-package, I hope to have within the next couple of weeks.

FYI: I've been involved with the arts and ceramics all my life. There is much you can achieve with this package. Remember Picasso - "Less is More!" - It works for me.

Best regards

Grazie


fbx wrote on 12/11/2002, 1:06 AM
I've had good luck cropping my pictures and getting them out on a balck or white ground using VF. When the cropping is uniform, using the method with printing an AVI file or MPG2 file and then re-importing it and running it with a solid white main video with teh pictures in the top video and a single crop for the whole MPG2 or AVI file, works very well. Unfortunately the image quality suffers from having beeing put out as an AVI or MPG2 file, re-imported, and put out again cropped.

By far the best picture quality resulted from using my JPG files (fairly large, some 1 and 2 MB, but mostly under 1 MB) and doing picture by picture crops with the PAN & SCAN capability. The piece I was working on had like 130 photos so it took some time. But it also provided for selecting subsections of particular photos, which is a plus.

The downside is that without enlarging the bounding box in the PAN & SCAN utility I can't get the pictures to shrink horizontally (they always seem to go out to the width of the screen, whatever their size as determined by the dotted-line boundry box). This is unfortunate, as I want the pictures to "float" in the white space of the screen, with a pronounced "cinematic" or widescreen crop.

Still working on it.



Grazie wrote on 12/11/2002, 5:48 AM
LS - You seem to have enough to be getting on with. I said it was all in there... nowyou're going to spend time just making VF more intuitive to your demands. Have fun!

PS - thanks for the Interim Report. IMHO this Forum cares for people who care! ("OOoooh nurse pass the sick bucket!" - But yes!)

Grazie
JohnnyRoy wrote on 12/11/2002, 11:15 PM
> I read, on this msg board or another, that ULead Picture Show is best at slide shows because it uses full high res photos and does not convert them to mpg2 or some other vid mode.

Sorry I missed this conversation, but just to clear things up for people who read this thread in the future, Los Santos you read correctly. Ulead DVD PictureShow DOES NOT create an MPEG2 file! I use this product all the time and it saves the actual images in RIFF/CDXA format. I’m not certain of the resolution but it is by far the crispest picture I’ve ever seen on a VCD. Each picture is saved individually on the VCD in the SEGMENT directory not as an MPEG in the MPEGAV directory. This is why Picture Show creates outstanding slide shows on VCD. It doesn’t compress them into the anemic 1150/kbps MPEG1 format.

What you loose is the ability to create transitions between the pictures because its not a movie. It’s just a series of stills set to music. For transitions you need to make them into an MPEG movie. I archive all of my still pictures to VCD using Picture Show. I only make a movie with Video Factory or Vegas when it’s a special event and I want transitions, pan and zoom, etc. For movie (mpeg) slide shows I always burn a DVD to get the best quality.

~jr
fbx wrote on 12/12/2002, 6:09 PM
And can you put them direct to DVD and have no special software to read? And is the quality so much better than an MPG2 DVD that it would be worth it? I have used up my trial period with ULead Picture Show or I'd test myself.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 12/15/2002, 11:21 AM
I haven’t tried this with a DVD yet. The VCD quality is so good that I saw no need to waste an expensive DVD-R when a cheap CD-R will do. There is no special software needed to play. Standalone DVD players think it’s a regular VCD. I think its actually part of the VCD specification. The quality is as good as a DVD would be anyway. I can’t imagine the DVD looking better because the pictures look exactly as they do on my computer screen. It doesn’t get any better than that. I think DVD quality MPEG2 will look just as good. I’ve added stills to my movies and they looked fine.

~jr