Streaming video...

mm2k wrote on 2/24/2008, 2:33 PM
I've made or rendered many pieces of video with vegas video (my video editor of choice). Many of these videos are rendered to WMV formats. I've been on the apple web site and watched video trailers QT format. I must say the video quality is impressive. Why itsn't more video compressed in this format that streams the web?

Out of all the compression formats, I have not seen anything come close to QT. Can one get the windows media or ASF files to play back with the same pristine quality as the QT streams I've seen on the apple site?

Comments

TheHappyFriar wrote on 2/24/2008, 3:38 PM
i think apple uses hardware encoders. Or really really really good software encoders. Either way, it's studio level $$ involved.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 2/24/2008, 6:38 PM

Actually, Apple uses Sorenson's codec to encode the movie trailers.

mm2k wrote on 2/24/2008, 6:46 PM
So could this Sorenson be used to produce the same video quality as seen on the apple site with their steaming video trailers? Is it possible?
deusx wrote on 2/24/2008, 7:08 PM
If you have a a couple of million laying around and shoot things the way videos and movies are shot, sure.

It has more to do with the original footage quality than compression.
John_Cline wrote on 2/24/2008, 8:05 PM
There is absolutely nothing that is inherently better about Quicktime compression. The clips on the Apple site start with pristine source material and are encoded by compression specialists who make adjustments on a scene-by-scene basis. Personally, I think that WMV, DivX or VP6 Flash can look just as good, if not better, than Quicktime.

John
jrazz wrote on 2/24/2008, 8:14 PM
Here is a video I filmed in HD and encoded to DivX HD. It streams from Stage6's server. Take a look at the quality. Also, here is the same file at a lower resolution still in DivX, it has great quality encoding as well.

j razz
johnmeyer wrote on 2/24/2008, 9:34 PM
First of all, we are WAY down the learning curve on compression technology, and while each technology has its own advantages, there are not going to be huge gains in quality as the years go by. That's just doesn't happen after thousands of engineers have spent the past twenty years perfecting DCT and wavelet compression.

Also, while the high-end encoders have all sorts of manual tools that professionals can use, these help avoid problems at specific boundary conditions, such as transitions and dissolves. They do virtually nothing to help improve the general look of most of the video. In other words, there is no "magic."

There are a few reasons why the QT stuff at the Apple site looks better. One has been mentioned, namely that they are working with very high quality sources. The second is more important: 24p. When going from 60i SD or HD material to web streaming, the footage has 60 temporal events every second, compared to just 24. It is interlaced, and yet is going to be played back on a progressive device (your computer monitor) and therefore some sort of deinterlacing has to take place. The big issue, however, is the 24 vs. 60 temporal events.

If you have any true 24p footage lying around, encode that, using the appropriate progressive presets for your favorite streaming codec, and see if it doesn't look pretty darned good. Oh yes, don't forget to pre-process with a signal processor that removes all residual "snow" and other random noise. This gets back to the comments about having a "pristine" source. Random noise absolutely kills low bitrate encoding because the small number of bits available for the encode get "wasted" trying to chase around all the random noise dots in each frame.

Jay Gladwell wrote on 2/25/2008, 4:33 AM

Is it possible?

Yes.

But remember, the finished image isn't going to look any better than what you started with.


craftech wrote on 2/25/2008, 5:49 AM
I have the Sorenson Squeeze 4.5 Compressions Suite.

After using it for a few months I can say that the QT movies it can produce have better looking video using the SVQ3 codec at a much lower file size than anything I can do with Vegas. I can get a 1.5 minute quality video at around 3MB. Vegas doesn't include a Quicktime Codec that can do that.

WM9 looks good too, but I cannot produce equal results at the same file size.

Clearly the Sorenson 3 codec is the reason the OP has observed what he stated and not the factor concerning "original footage quality" as others are suggesting unless he is talking strictly about the Quicktime 7 videos in HD.

In terms of the so-called Hi-Def formats for web video I don't find Sorenson producing anything I can't produce with low cost or free software. In fact H264 results from Super (c) look slightly better using X264 than that of the Sorenson codec or at least a draw. In a recent test X264 (free) and Main Concept H264 Pro ($2290) were two of the three top rated H264 codecs. See page 30 of that report.

Of course the large file sizes of those formats are often a problem for people who want to watch something right away. Those people often include prospective clients you are trying to show something to in order to promote yourself or your business.

This is where the Quicktime Sorenson 3 video is still the one to beat.

John