Subtitle problems - (Soution!!!)

Alan_GuitarGuy wrote on 12/27/2004, 9:31 AM
Hi everyone,

I'm having some serious problems with subtitles in DVDA. I am able to add them and create the dvd without problems, but during playback I notice problems. Some subtitles show up, others don't appear at all. And I have even noticed a few subtitles that appear in the wrong place!!! What's the deal, Sony? Is there a size limit that a subtitle must be "X" seconds long, or do they have to start exactly on a second? And tips, gotchas, etc that might help me fix this problem?

Is anyone else experiencing these problems?



P.S. After lots of testing I figured it out. See below for the solution....


Alan_GuitarGuy wrote on 12/27/2004, 9:45 AM
One more thing.... That's WITHOUT fast-forwarding or rewinding - Just playing the DVD from start to finish, some subtitles appear, others don't, and some are in the wrong locations.

jeremyk wrote on 12/28/2004, 8:24 AM
Don't know about subtitles not appearing, but there are various mysteries about subtitle timing. I believe DVDA uses non-drop NTSC timecode, so the Vegas project has to be set accordingly before subtitles are exported.

Search the forum on "subtitles" -- there have been threads about this stuff a while back.
Alan_GuitarGuy wrote on 12/28/2004, 12:45 PM
Ok, I'll check that out. I think I also might be onto something... I'm not positive yet, but it seems like the subtitle events that I am having problems with are the events that I create, and then move around on the timeline. If I create one and don't move it, I think it appears as expected. I still need to do some tests to verify this. I might be drawing incorrect conclusions....

Alan_GuitarGuy wrote on 12/29/2004, 10:28 AM
Well, my idea of the subtitle events being moved causing the problem didn't pan out.

I tried a couple other things. I highlighted a few of the subtitles that weren't appearing, deleted them, then added them right back. Still no luck. Next I exported the subtitles, reviewed the file (they were all there, as expected), deleted all of the subtitle events, and finally imported the subtitles from the file. Still, some of the subtitles won't display. Some are single line subtitles, some are multi-line subtitles, some are displayed for a short time period, some for a long time period. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to what is causing this.

One more thing, I checked how I was rendering the video out of Vegas. I am using SMPTE non-drop 29.97.


jeremyk wrote on 12/29/2004, 10:38 AM
One more thing, could the non-drop timecode issue be the problem. I wouldn't think so since the subtitles are added in DVD Architect. That seems like it would only effect the length of the video. Or am I missing something?

Uh, oh. Sorry, I wrongly guessed you were making the subtitles in Vegas.

Nope, I have no idea what's going on. The only subtitle problems I've had have been related to export from Vegas.

Alan_GuitarGuy wrote on 12/29/2004, 10:42 AM
Ok, well thanks, Jeremy.

Any other ideas? Anyone? Sony?

rontvs wrote on 12/29/2004, 6:24 PM
I have had problems with subtitles being displayed when they are located at the chapter marker. They sometimes will not show up until I go back and make sure that the subtitle is perfectly aligned with the marker or a little past. Not sure what causes this. However, the subtitles always show up in all cases in preview just fine.


Alan_GuitarGuy wrote on 12/30/2004, 12:27 PM
I had no chapter markers when this problem originally started. (I have chapter markers now, but it hasn't changed how the subtitles work.... or how they DON'T work!) And you're right, in the DVDA preview window, all of the subtitles show up properly. However, when I burn it, some subtitles disappear, or even worse, they appear in the wrong place - sometimes minutes after when they were supposed to appear. I even deleted some of the offending subtitles, re-added them, and they still do not show up correctly when I burn the DVD. I'm trying to deliver a DVD to a paying customer, and I can't come through with all I promised because the DVDA software is broken.

Can anyone else back me up on how this is broken to help kick Sony in the butt to get this thing fixed? It sure seems like a bug to me. Does Sony even monitor these forums?

If you've made it this far, thanks for listening...


(BTW, I have burned both DVD+RW and DVD-R media with the same effects.)
ScottW wrote on 12/30/2004, 12:46 PM
Click on the support link at the top of the page and formally report the problem.
Alan_GuitarGuy wrote on 1/1/2005, 4:05 PM

For the most part, I have it figured out... After quite a bit of testing, I determined that I was rendering out of Vegas with either too high of a Bit Rate, or DVDA doesn't like VBR with subtitles, or both. I was using VBR at 9.8 for a max, 8 for average, and 8 for minimum. That pushed the Bit Rate for the movie to about 9.65 out of DVDA (that's for the audio and video combined). After reading other posts about bit rate problems, I decided that was probably too high. So, I decided to try a CBR of 7 out of Vegas. Now DVDA says the Bit Rate going onto the DVD is 8.768. I burned the project, and sure enough, SUCCESS!!!, all of the subtitles appear and in the proper places. I still need to do some more testing to figure out for sure what was causing it though (VBR, or too high of a Bit Rate)....

Thanks again for the suggestions!

jeremyk wrote on 1/2/2005, 12:35 PM
Congratulations! It's always good to get a mystery solved, and it's another thing I won't have to worry about maybe happening to me!
Nairou wrote on 1/21/2005, 1:57 PM
Regarding the video bitrate affecting the subtitles, I assume this is just a DVDA bug? I too am experiencing a loss of subtitles when playing the burned DVD. The video I am editing is an instructional video with a lot of on-screen detail, so I have had to render it in Vegas with a maximum bitrate, 9.8 CBR (any lower and I can see the blurriness creeping in). Earlier test burns at lower bitrates showed the subtitles just fine, only this most recent burn is missing them, and there is nothing in the software to indicate a problem (the DVDA preview shows them fine). If this is only a DVDA bug, then I may have to look for an update or alternative, since I can't sacrifice video quality. I certainly hope it isn't an issue with DVDs in general!
ScottW wrote on 1/21/2005, 2:51 PM
It's not a bug in DVDA. The DVD spec limits the total bitrate, as soon as you add in subtitles along with the audio you are exceeding the maximum and something has to go.

When you render your video from Vegas, are you leaving the quality setting at "good"? Try a test with a short section setting the quality to "best" and you may be able to drop back on the bitrate.

rtbond wrote on 1/22/2005, 9:46 AM

Yes, I think I have seen this very same lost subtitle behavior. I create subtitles by inserting Region text in Vegas, and then exporting the Region Text as subtitles (using the Vegas script). Once the subtitle information is added to DVD-A (v2) all looks great (in previews), but once the DVD is burned I sometimes see some subtitles missing in the burned DVD (burning using Nero v6.x).

In Vegas I was locating my Regions very close to (but not exactly on top of) Vegas markers. Sounds like you are saying I need to play around with the start of the Region relative to the start of the adjacent Marker.

I wonder if this is a DVD-A or Vegas problem?


Rob Bond

My System Info:

  • Vegas Pro 20 Build 411
  • OS: Windows 11.0 Home (64-bit), Version: 10.0.22621 Build 22621
  • Processor: i9-10940X CPU @ 3.30GHz (14 core)
  • Physical memory: 64GB (Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB (2 x 32GB) DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz C16 memory kit)
  • Motherboard Model: MSI x299 Creator (MS-7B96)
  • GPU: EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER XC ULTRA (Studio Driver Version =  536.40)
  • Storage: Dual Samsung 970 EVO 1TB SSD (boot and Render); WDC WD4004FZWX, 7200 RPM (media)
  • Primary Display: Dell UltraSharp 27, U2723QE, 4K monitor with 98% DCI-P3 and DisplayHDR 400 with Dell Display Manager
  • Secondary Display: LG 32UK550-B, entry-level 4k/HDR-10 level monitor, @95% DCI-P3 coverage
Nairou wrote on 1/24/2005, 11:26 AM
Thanks, I guess I'll have to try a lower bitrate afterall. Is there a way to determine if you are exceeding the total bitrate ahead of time before just burning the DVD and finding out if anything is missing?