Suggestion for VHS alternative

DGates wrote on 1/24/2016, 6:44 PM

Yeah, the VHS thing has to go.

Two options:

1. Just go home that night, slap it on a timeline and burn DVD's. Then give copies to the school the next day to hand out to the students.

2. While the upload may take forever, just put the video on YouTube and send them the link.

Chienworks wrote on 1/24/2016, 7:21 PM

Pick up some cheap/used DVD recorders on ebay. The last couple i got were about $40 each. They record in real-time. Just remember to "close" the discs when you're done recording or they *MAY* not play back on other players. Unfortunately the closing process can take a while, but probably not more than 10 minutes. If the recorder has options for "allow editing" disable this as it will close much faster with it off. Make sure you choose the right recording length before starting too. Typically they can be set for 2, 2.5, 3, 4, and 6 hours. Shorter is better quality, of course. And remember you'll have to have some sort of NTSC (or PAL?) video monitor there with you so that you can access the menus on the recorders.

If you get all of them the same brand, hopefully even the same model, you'll be able to control them all simultaneously with one remote.

musicvid10 wrote on 1/24/2016, 7:32 PM

Render mp4 in Handbrake.
Upload to YouTube and give it a private as address.

wwaag wrote on 1/24/2016, 7:42 PM

Here's another alternative. Dump the VX2000 and get an inexpensive (or expensive) Sony Handycam (or other camcorder) that records to a memory card. Afterward, import to your computer and simply copy to a number of flash drives for distribution. It would be a lot faster and more reliable than use of a couple of old DVR's (I've actually got a couple of old Pioneers that work great.) I would imagine that pretty much all of your students would have access to a computer or TV for playback. The flash drives are cheap and can be reused, unlike burning to a DVD. Just a suggestion.

wwaag

ushere wrote on 1/25/2016, 2:47 AM

agree with wwaag - dump the vx2000, go to card recording.

if you're not getting paid for the tapes / discs simply put it on youtube as private.

craftech wrote on 1/25/2016, 5:31 AM

I don't use the VX2000 for the performances. I use my EX1. The VX2000 works well for the stack of VCRs and resulting VHS tapes.

My wife has a Canon HF M40 that records to SD cards and the idea of uploading to You Tube and providing the school drama program with the link sounds like a good idea, but I have a concern:

The videos are typically TWO hours. Is there any way that wouldn't take forever to upload?

Or is Vimeo a better bet?

John

Chienworks wrote on 1/25/2016, 6:08 AM

Remember that if it's just for rehearsal purposes then quality can suffer quite a bit in order to get faster uploads. You could make a pretty decent looking 640x360 file at maybe 800Kbps (remember that not very many years ago at all that was considered high end web video!). If you cut the frame rate in half then you could probably go for 500Kbps, or about 1/10 the size of a DVD's worth of data. Rendering will go much faster, and 430MB will upload way faster than 4.3GB, and in the blink of an eye compared to 26GB straight from the camera.

Just remind them that it's rehearsal quality and the finished video will be full-res.

ushere wrote on 1/25/2016, 6:09 AM

depends on what your connection is like. i regularly put up 1gb time codes for clients on my 64kps (ha, 21st century indeed) connection but i don't know how long they take cause i simply let it go overnight ;-)

vimeo might be better in as much as i don't think there's a length limit. is there still one on youtube?

OldSmoke wrote on 1/25/2016, 8:47 AM

I thought Vimeo has a length limit and in order to lift it, you have to switch to a paid pro account?
If you YT account is on good standing you can extend the upload length in your profile.

fldave wrote on 1/25/2016, 8:56 AM

Have them bring in their thumb drive. All schools in our area require the students to have a thumb drive. Find some quick render method and copy to their hard drives?

wwaag wrote on 1/25/2016, 10:19 AM

Call me a bit paranoid, but in addition to the added burden of rendering and uploading a 2 hour program to YT or Vimeo, there are privacy concerns. It takes but one post to make a "private" video available to virtually anyone. Granted, one can take the contents from a thumb drive or any other medium and upload it, but then it is your student doing the uploading and making it available--not you. And maybe these concerns are completely unfounded. Just something to consider.

wwaag

craftech wrote on 1/25/2016, 10:35 AM

The video rehearsals average 1 - 2 per week up until performance week starting in early February.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you can prevent anyone from downloading from Vimeo by signing into Vimeo > Goto Video > Settings > Privacy > Mark as Secured, and also select embed domains.

I don't mind paying for a video plus account (5 GB/week at $60/year) if it will work for the purpose I am describing. I have to check the HF M40 camera to see if it will shoot decent video quality that can be directly uploaded to Vimeo in a short period of time.

My TWC connection tests out as 19 mb/s, but I am paying for 25 (The attorney general is on it but I am sure he will get nowhere with the monopoly). That said, does anything I am saying seem feasible?

In terms of handing out thumb drives or SD cards to students, there is the problem of them returning them. It is like pulling teeth just to get them to return the VHS tapes when they are done with them.

John

riredale wrote on 1/25/2016, 10:46 AM

It seems to me that if time is of the essence then solid-state is the way to go. From camera to individual copies on personal flash memory in a matter of minutes.

OldSmoke wrote on 1/25/2016, 10:47 AM

In terms of handing out thumb drives or SD cards to students, there is the problem of them returning them. It is like pulling teeth just to get them to return the VHS tapes when they are done with them.

As suggested, let them bring their own.

craftech wrote on 1/25/2016, 10:53 AM

I guess if they bring their own to a Saturday rehearsal, I could deliver them back to the school with their names on them on Monday. Not a bad idea.

In terms of upload speed I could probably figure it out once I figure out the file size.

1. File size in MB.
2. Convert to bits...........x8 = Number of Mb
3. File size / 5 Mb per second (my speed) = number of seconds for upload.
4. Number of seconds / 3600 -= number of hours to upload.

John

EDIT: MASSIVE error on my part. I was using Download speeds above. ALL TWC customers regardless of level are limited to an upload speed of 5 Mb/sec.

craftech wrote on 1/28/2016, 12:01 PM

I spoke with the director and she said she would put as link to the rehearsals on the drama club website. She didn't think the students would bring in flash drives or sd cards or pick them up. They are pretty lazy.

That said, I do have a Sorenson 360 account with a 5GB limit that came free with Sorenson Squeeze 10. A Sorenson SVQ3 file (mov.) is very small with good quality and can be generated and uploaded right from Sorenson Squeeze.

Then there was Kelly's suggestion that I liked:

Remember that if it's just for rehearsal purposes then quality can suffer quite a bit in order to get faster uploads. You could make a pretty decent looking 640x360 file at maybe 800Kbps (remember that not very many years ago at all that was considered high end web video!). If you cut the frame rate in half then you could probably go for 500Kbps, or about 1/10 the size of a DVD's worth of data. Rendering will go much faster, and 430MB will upload way faster than 4.3GB, and in the blink of an eye compared to 26GB straight from the camera.

Any other ideas or presets using Handbrake or Vegas Pro 8 or both that you might have? Remember Time Warner Cable has all users regardless of the cost of their packages crippled to a maximum upload speed of 5 Mbps.

Thanks

John

farss wrote on 1/28/2016, 2:40 PM

You can stream live to YT.
YT becomes your stack of VHS recorders.

Don't like that idea then there's thumb drive duplicators etc..
Thumb drives are cheaper than VHS tape if you're prepared to buy direct from China. If the students will not return USB drives then I guess they wouldn't return tapes either.

Bob.

Chienworks wrote on 1/28/2016, 3:30 PM

"Time Warner Cable has all users regardless of the cost of their packages crippled to a maximum upload speed of 5 Mbps."

I'm a little concerned about that. One of the packages i've been mulling over with them is 70Mbps/70Mbps, or supposedly 70 in both directions.

I suppose i should point out that my idea of using low resolution, low frame rate, low bit rate does require a rendering step somewhere along the way. Might go pretty fast in handbrake. However, the idea of simply copying the camera files to the student's own flash drives avoids the rendering. On the other hand, if you're making a lot of copies, the time savings in copying 200MB files instead of 20GB files could more than make up the rendering time.

craftech wrote on 1/29/2016, 8:27 AM

If the students will not return USB drives then I guess they wouldn't return tapes either
------------------------------------------------
Bob,
They don't. I provide new VHS tapes every week (2x a week). Sometimes the same kids take them home and sometimes others take them home. Sometimes they bring them back next rehearsal. Sometimes they bring them back three weeks later. sometimes they bring them back after the director threatens them. Sometimes they never bring them back.

How would that work with SD cards or thumb drives? I have even gotten VHS tapes back the next year.

I will look into streaming live to YouTube. Not sure how that works.

Thanks Bob.

John

craftech wrote on 1/29/2016, 8:29 AM

"Time Warner Cable has all users regardless of the cost of their packages crippled to a maximum upload speed of 5 Mbps."
=========================
I highly doubt that. You had better check regarding upload speeds. I know what they have in my area and it is 5 Mbps regardless of how much you spend.

John

DGates wrote on 1/30/2016, 1:37 AM

I just don't think you can expect high school age kids to even know what a VHS tape is. Heck, their parents are probably just in their mid forties themselves, and they no doubt stopped messing with VHS at least a decade ago.

So I don't think it has anything to do with being lazy. It's just that many won't even have a player to watch it, and would prefer to view the rehearsal the same way they view everything else. Off a thumb drive or better yet, online.

John_Cline wrote on 1/30/2016, 2:21 PM

Typically, Internet service providers say "up to" a certain speed, they don't necessarily guarantee it. Here is the current result via http://www.speedtest.net from my Comcast cable Internet service here in Albuquerque. I can't complain except that I wish the upload was a bit faster. It's workable though.

craftech wrote on 1/30/2016, 8:00 PM

WOW! That's really good John.

Currently our N.Y. Attorney General Eric Schneiderman Invited New Yorkers to Submit Internet Speed Data as Part of Internet Provider Probe.

Attorney General Launches Website For Consumers To Test Internet Speeds At Home As Part Of Probe Into Internet Speeds

I get anywhere from 15 Mbps - 20 Mbps and I am paying for a download speed of 25 Mbps. TWC cripples ALL customers to 5 Mbps regardless of what they pay.

Our local Town Board does not believe in competition as part of their so-called "free market" philosophy so Verizon FIOS is not allowed access nor is anyone else. The taxpayers complain to no avail yet they keep re-electing them year after year. The community votes straight party line consistently.
So TWC can do whatever they want to their customers because there is no competition and there won't be down the road, and the politicians who insure TWC mistreatment of customers have no fear of being ousted.

Hopefully the AG can put a stop to their falsely advertised speeds.

TWC advertises "$14 a month for internet" "no strings attached" in a TV ad.

I called and asked what the internet speed is. They weren't going to say until I insisted. Then they told me that the speed at that price would be 2 Mbps.

John

craftech wrote on 2/3/2016, 5:52 PM

Based upon Kelly's suggestions here:

Remember that if it's just for rehearsal purposes then quality can suffer quite a bit in order to get faster uploads. You could make a pretty decent looking 640x360 file at maybe 800Kbps (remember that not very many years ago at all that was considered high end web video!). If you cut the frame rate in half then you could probably go for 500Kbps, or about 1/10 the size of a DVD's worth of data. Rendering will go much faster, and 430MB will upload way faster than 4.3GB, and in the blink of an eye compared to 26GB straight from the camera.

I started running some rendering tests on a 1920 x 1080 1 hr and 10 minute 11.8 GB .mts file from my wife's Canon HF M40. I didn't have a 2 hour file to test so I just doubled the results to get an approximation. I used an .mts combiner to create a single file first because the camera shoots a series of 1GB clips.

1. Sorenson Squeeze 9. Output to .mov preset 640 x 360p, x264 mp4, 800 kbps, Data size 465 MB Processing time took WAY too long. 6-7 hours. Looked fine.

2. Sorenson Squeeze 9 Output to presets using Frameserver instead of combined mts file. Stopped the render after 6 hours because it still had almost three hours to go and we're talking about 19 hours for a 2 hour movie.

3. Sorenson Squeeze 9. Using Sorenson 3 codec (an old one) with complete mts file as source and a 360 preset. Quick Compress. 1-pass VBR. 650 mbps only took 1 hr 53 minutes with surprisingly good results. SVQ3 has always beenknown for that in terms of low file size / quality.

4. Handbrake. Settings:
Picture Mp4 File. Web Optimized, Width 640, Crop - Auto, Loose, 16

Video H264 (x264), FR Same as source, Constant FR, Average Bitrate 800 Kbps

Audio AC3 passthrough Advanced settings at default

Rest of settings were all default.

Rendering went in about an hour and a half. Data file size was 613.68 MB. Quality looked good. So for a two hour plus file it would be about 1250 MB or less.

It looks like Handbrake is probably the best bet.

Does anyone see a problem with my Handbrake settings or have a template or other settings suggestions?

John