Suggestions?

KSTONER wrote on 6/1/2010, 4:59 AM
Hey there guys (and possibly gals? Didn't wanna sound sexist there :) )!
A while back, I had asked for a pro-sumer camcorder suggestion, and I was pointed in the direction of the Sony HDR-FX7. I love that camera and everything about it (Thanks gents), even made the $14 Steadicam for it and it is smoooooth.

Anyway, I was wondering if you guys could point me in the direction of a mic and some tapes.
Lately I've been using these for tapes: http://www.amazon.com/Sony-DVM63HD-MiniDV-Minute-Definition/dp/B001MXP5HC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1275392652&sr=8-1

In terms of audio though, I'm not sure what to do. I'd like to get a Beachtek Box (or something similar) and a nice mic, but sadly, I'm a tad bit strapped for cash. So, I was thinking of something along the lines of this: http://www.amazon.com/Rode-VideoMic-Directional-Shotgun-Mount/dp/B0007U9SOC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1275393381&sr=1-1

Anywho, what do you guys think/suggest I should do in these areas?
As always, any help is greatly appreciated, Thanks guys, you're the best.

Comments

farss wrote on 6/1/2010, 5:43 AM
I use and the company I work for sells those Sony tapes. Never had an issue with them or to be honest the Panasonic ones either. Anything else is rubbish that I have had issues with.

If you're on a tight budget the Rode VideoMic is good value for money. Like any mic, placement is the key to getting good audio.

Bob.
Sebaz wrote on 6/1/2010, 5:57 AM
When I got an HDV camera over a year ago and I was having at least one drop-out per tape, usually two, I posted either here or on Creative Cow and Douglas Spotted Eagle pointed me to these as safer than most:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/562039-REG/Sony_HDM63VG_HDM63VG_VG_HDV_Cassette.html

He was right in that at least on the first pass they didn't cause a single drop-out, but if you use them a second time they show some drops, which is another drawback about that format. Obviously you wouldn't record over a second time for anything professional, but I do just for personal video. That's one big advantage AVCHD has, when you can use and re-use a SDHC card over and over and there's no drop-outs, and perfect picture quality every time. When you compare the cost of that to HDV tapes, AVCHD is a far cheaper format. The only drawback is the editing in machines that are not too fast.
Sebaz wrote on 6/1/2010, 6:01 AM
Oh, as far as shotgun mic, this is one I bought and I'm happy with:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/444022-REG/Azden_SMX_10_SMX_10_Stereo_Microphone.html

Note that it has a very high gain, and it doesn't muffle the high frequencies too much, which brings some hiss into the recording, so you might want to do that in Vegas with the Track EQ. However, the audio quality is way better than on camera mics.
BRC wrote on 6/1/2010, 7:40 AM
As one of those who recommended the HDR-FX7 I am pleased to see your comments - and the price you quoted in the original exchange made me somewhat envious.

I use the Rode Videomic you refer to and find this very good value for money, but remember that this is a mono mic. I also have the Rode stereo videomic which gives a very good stereo sound stage ... at almost twice the price, if you can still get one. As already commented, positioning of any mic, even expensive ones, is critical to how good the sound capture is going to be. Trial and error will give you that positioning, so extension lead(s) may be a requirement for long (video) shots.

It would seem that, like me, you have to be very budget conscious to the point that although I would like the best possible mic available the bank account howls back at me to look for something more appropriate to my finances.

Your reference on the poor man's steadicam ws new to me, so thank you for the pointer. (I wonder if my DIY skills will match my ambition?)

BRC
KSTONER wrote on 6/5/2010, 10:01 PM
Thank you guys!
Sorry I didn't respond faster. Busy n' such.

Anyway, Sebaz, those tapes look awesome. I'm gonna order a few of em'. I agree with ya about tapes. I think when the going finally gets tough, I may just get a converter for my camera...$900 later. Yeesh. By the way, that mic looks awesome. But everything you listed there sounds a tad-bit troublesome. How do you deal with it in Vegas? Do you need to be SUPER good for the audio to get cleaned up? Granted I agree full-heartedly about placement, but still, audio and I aren't the best of pals yet. The reviews seem really good though.

BRC: Hey brother. Thanks for suggesting the HDR-FX7. I love that thing! That Steadicam is awesome too. Super smooth stuff and A LOT of bang for one's buck! The only thing that got me in the building process was the counter-weight. Other than that, super easy.
In terms of those mics, if I can I may just go for the stereo one, although what is so bad about the mono? I know that it only gives one channel, but in the whole recording thing, isn't mono preferred...or am I thinking about studio recording....which I probably am. =) Anyways, thanks for all of the help so far guys.
BRC wrote on 6/6/2010, 1:08 AM
Absolutely nothing wrong with mono sound, particualerly for long to medium shots. I just thought I had better point that out to avoid dissapointment as at times it seems some people think everything should be in stereo. As with anything, it depends what it is you want to achieve.

Whilst videoing a musical show I have used the Rode Videomic (mono) as the primary mic (long range) plus set-up the Stereo mic with the second camera somewhere mid sound stage and 'blended the sound. I have also, at times, used a third rather old Sony TRV18 Handycam quite close to the sound stage, not for the video - although it helps when synchronising - but for the stereo sound image. Okay, not necessarily the greatest HiFi sound but on one occasion achieved far better results (after editing) than a professional sound engineer (his claim to be professional).

Apologies for the rambling response - just thought I would share that last bit as it is easy to forget that old superseded equipment can still be of some use, even if not for its original intention.

BRC
farss wrote on 6/6/2010, 2:48 AM
Depending on what kind of stage show it is I can recommend an oftenly overlooked type of microphone.
It is called various names, Pressure Zone Micrphone (PZM), Boundary Microphone or Plate Microphone. The authentic PZMs are made by Crown and are expensive. Much cheaper and quite good units are made by Samson and various other Chinese manufacturers that can be had via eBay for around $50 each. These mics gaffe taped to the front of the stage can pickup sounds that other mics don't. Footsteps, stomps, ankle bells etc. Most stages in the large venues will have these as permanent fixtures. If you're really nice to the guy running the desk it can be worth getting a direct feed from them if you have enough channels on your recorder. Failing that and again if you have enough channels on your recorder you can use your own.

One thing you need to watch for in post is the various mics will pickup sound with dubious phase relationships. Always try flicking the "invert phase" swicth in Vegas to make certain you're not cancelling something. The other tip is to use Eq to limit say the PZM mics to only feed what's needed into the final mix. All this is quite easy to do with Vegas.

Bob.
musicvid10 wrote on 6/6/2010, 8:28 AM
PZM's (or PCC's for that matter), with intelligent placement can be useful for stage concerts, etc., where the talent is either stationary or not moving around a lot, either laterally or up/down stage. The very attributes that make them great for isolation, including phase matching and hemispherical pickup pattern, can cause annoying dropoffs when the talent moves to the edges of the zone in any axis. Think of them as "bubble" mics. The other disadvantages of floor mounted mics are of course surface and foot noise. Also, a stage manager slapping a wet mop around can put them out of commission rather quickly. But they set up quickly, and are great for beefing up tap and chorus numbers.

One effective solution is to hang the PZM mics mounted on plexiglass plates vertically just behind the proscenium, with the bubble aimed upstage. With careful attention to positioning and just a little overlap, you can get a fairly consistent level across the stage.

Personally, I use a combination of hanging choir mics (A-T Pro 45), and a couple of PZM / PCC on the floor to fill in gaps, giving even coverage left-to-right, and front-to-back. How you use them, and in what combination, depends on what amount of stage isolation you want, and how much sound from the orchestra pit you want to include/exclude.

Add to that the trusty H4 in the back for ambient/backup purposes, a dry feed of the wireless talent from the board, and you've got the raw materials for a stunning, natural 5.1 surround mix. I know I've mentioned this a dozen times, but PluralEyes has made my life so much easier.

I know the full scenario is impractical for a freelancer dropping in to record a show, but being a producer has its advantages.
musicvid10 wrote on 6/6/2010, 9:27 AM
An interesting alternative to the Rode was discussed here:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=713397

I tested both Azden and Apex under-$100 shotguns and found them too noisy for my use.