SVP 13 Renders Slower Than SVP12

astar wrote on 10/6/2015, 11:12 PM

How much ram is on your system?

What is your source media codec and container (mov, mp4,mxf)?

What render profile are you rendering to? Do you have Cuda enabled for the render profile? Have you tried both Sony AVC and MC cuda.

Have you tested rendering from xdcam to mp4, is there a difference there? Changing your source working codec could speed up timeline and rendering speeds.

Is GPU on or off under Vegas preferences?

Is your GPU driver fully updated?

The 580 was a really nice card back in the day. The Single Point GFLOPs of the 580 is only like 1500 vs 4300 for a 7970, or 5900 for 390X. The CPU is probably only in the hundreds of GFLOPS. Leaving the GPU out of the equation, is like gimping Vegas to 2 cores when you have 6.

Plus your motherboard is capable of PCIe3.0, and your 580 operates at 2.0.

Certain codecs are better optimized in Vegas over others, and they better utilize both the CPU and GPU. Rendering to Sony AVC with GPU should not show compression difference, as the GPU it is only be used for computational speed added to the existing compute units on the CPU. This is where the amount of amount of compute units on the card, and proper support for OpenCL comes in

The system decompresses the source media, sends that info the encoder and then writes a file. FX are applied when the media is in the uncompressed state. Proper OpenCL support allows the CPU and GPU to work together to decompress the source media, compute FXs, and a certain amount of the render codec format

I would try some of the following:

Optimizing memory bandwidth on your board, having plenty of memory so that more info is called from cache, and having a ram chip in each of the 4 controller channels you have on the x79.

GPU interface - PCIe3 has less overhead, greater bandwidth, and lower latency.

GPU Speed - faster GPU returns OpenCL computations faster to the solution. OpenCL is always enabled via the compute units on the CPU. Disabling the GPU in Vegas preferences only keeps the GPU out of the OpenCL computations. Adding a GPU that properly supports this mode of operation, speeds up codec decompression, timeline FX, and rendering. NV cards do not properly support ALL aspects of this.

rstrong wrote on 10/7/2015, 12:08 AM

Hello Astar,
All settings are the same for both VP12 & VP13.
Ram is 32gb.
This particular project media is mpeg-ts (hdv 1080i).
I'm rendering to an MC2 profile. No matter what render profile I choose, VP13 is always slower to render.
I'm unable to locate the 'Check for Cuda' option, can't find it anywhere.
GPU is off in both versions.
Driver may not be the latest, but is 334.89

VP12 is fast, has always been, but not Vp13 when I installed it. I don't understand why one version is so fast and the other, which is on the same pc, is so slow.

OldSmoke wrote on 10/7/2015, 6:13 AM

Driver 334.89 is a very good driver for a GTX580. Check if your your preview RAM settings are the same in both versions. Also check if you did tweak the internal OpenCL Memory settings in VP12 but not VP13. Also check that the project properties are the same in both versions.

dxdy wrote on 10/7/2015, 7:47 AM

Have you looked at GPU and CPU utilization for each? Use GPU-Z and Windows Task Manager.

Which test did you run first? If you ran SVP13 first, then some files may have been cached for the SVP12 run.

OldSmoke wrote on 10/7/2015, 8:51 AM

One more thing. The latest version of VP13 is Build 453 and not 310.

rstrong wrote on 10/7/2015, 12:09 PM

Thanks for the replies guys, I'll definitely check out your suggestions today......

robert

rstrong wrote on 10/7/2015, 3:01 PM

Ram preview settings are the same for both versions.
Open CL is tweaked in both versions to 1024.
Project properties are the same in both versions.
I installed the latest build of 453, but noted no difference.
I rendered first in VP12. I deleted all pre-rendered files.
What should I look at when running GPU-Z and CPU in Task Manager ?

thanks,
robert

Steve_Rhoden wrote on 10/7/2015, 3:46 PM

There is no complex algorithms involved why you seeing a render difference between 12 and 13, the answer is simple... Yes, Vegas 12 and also Vegas 10 renders slightly faster than Vegas 13!
So do i use these? No, i continue using Vegas 13, the benefits, improvements and
stability of Vegas 13 over these previous versions are too many to list here!

dxdy wrote on 10/7/2015, 3:51 PM

I would look at the sensors tab in GPU-Z at the GPU load. How busy is the GPU in 12 vs. 13.

In Task Manager, in the performance tab, look at how much of the CPU is being used.

It will be interesting to see what the difference in hardware utilization is between versions. You may not be able to do anything about the difference, but it should be interesting.

astar wrote on 10/7/2015, 4:49 PM

Its really hard to say what the real issue is without know what the source media format , project settings, FX used on layers, render best/good, or the "render as" settings.

A slow down of 2x seems like there is something else is wrong with the system, or something is holding back VP13.

GPU-z, look under the sensors tab to see GPU utilization, and GPU memory utilization during the render. On the main tab, you can hover the mouse over the interface and see your GPU interface ability, and current operation mode.

PeterDuke wrote on 10/7/2015, 7:51 PM

I just rendered 15 minutes of 1920x1080-50p AVCHD2 to Sony AVC Bluray 16 Mbps 1920x1080-50i. (Windows 10). (CPU only render).

Vegas 12 took 32 min 12 sec, while Vegas 13 took 36 min 18 sec.

So Vegas 13 is slower than 12 but not to the extent that you are getting.

OldSmoke wrote on 10/7/2015, 8:17 PM

To get a true CPU only render, GPU acceleration must be turned off in the render template, if available and in the preferences too. Vegas uses OpenCL to process FX plugins during render even if the render template used is CPU only.

rstrong wrote on 10/7/2015, 11:08 PM

Thanks for the replies guys, I will take the specific instructions for monitoring GPU-Z and CPU you have all provided and make a comparison, and post results probably tomorrow. It sure sounds like something is holding back vegas 13. When I went from 10 to 12, (I bought 11 but never installed), 12 was faster than 10. I took it for granted that 13 would be faster than 12. I would have been happy if it was the same.

thanks again,
robert

NickHope wrote on 10/8/2015, 2:15 AM

This might hold a clue...

...we've made a noteworthy upgrade for VP13 that hopefully will be largely invisible to you: we're using a much newer C++ compiler and we're using .NET4. Both of those make it much easier to diagnose crash reports (plus, they've given Vegas a modest but measurable speed boost) (source)

Could it be that on some systems these changes actually make VP13 run slower?

PeterDuke wrote on 10/8/2015, 5:21 AM

If 13 is more robust than 12 as some claim, then it could be because of more checking of facts rather than relying on assumptions. The extra checking would take some CPU power.

But this would not explain the significant difference the OP is getting. If for some reason, the GPU is actually being used in 12 and not in 13, then this would account for it.

rstrong wrote on 10/8/2015, 10:11 AM

Okay, I rendered the project again, (which I originally created in V12) in both versions. GPU is and has been turned off in Preferences and the render profile. I did note that in GPU-Z that Cuda is available ( the box is checked)
The GPU & CPU Loads were practically the same, GPU averaging at 8%, and the CPU anywhere from 88% to 100%. I noted the V13 CPU was rendering in the mid to higher 90's most of the time.

robert