Take 2 not showing "Out of Synch". Correct?

Grazie wrote on 11/24/2005, 11:32 PM


Before anybody bites my head off with a, "What do you expect?!" Please read on . . if nothing else it is an observation I made last night and may just assist others . . oh yes . . :(

Ok, standard setup:

Track 1 Video
Track 2 Audio

Ungroup, and move audio slightly. Out of Synch warning is in Pink, and the ± Synch Numbers are displayed. This is good! Out of Synch Warning works - ok.

Now, supposing I don't like the quality of the Audio, and do a "Open Copy in Sound Forge".

I do my thing in SF. Save. Return to Vegas. Audio is Updated to TAKE 2 - good. Ungroup Video and the now "Take 2" Audio from each other and slide either away from each other. No out of synch error. Is this what I SHOULD expect? Must I remember that "Takes", or rather corrected SF audio, are not then regarded as being "synch-able"? . . would be nice if I got this warning though. Found out the hard way last night.

Am I now correct in thinking that "Open Copy in SF" does not transfer the "linkages" to its original Video Partner? Meaning a "copy" is ONLY the audio without its ability to memorise where it belongs with its Video partner?

Grazie

Comments

farss wrote on 11/25/2005, 12:52 AM
The 'copy' is just another audio file, gets added as a take, I think you'll find you can add any audio file as a take.
But I think (hope?) that what's going on here is that the out of sync error is being generated by the reference at the file level, ie the audio and vision tracks come from the same source file and therefore one expects them always to be in sync.
Problem with this whole scheme goes beyond the issue you're seeing here, for many reasons one might like to shift the sync a few frames but as far as I know you cannot do this in Vegas like you can in other apps. Yes I know I can slip the audio, duh, but what I need to do is slip it and then lock the A and V at that position. Also one should be able to lock multiple A and V track such that short of deliberately unlocking them they are ALWAYS treated as a single object.
Just my opinion but for an application so strong on the audio side it falls down pretty badly when it comes to multitracking audio and video.
Bob.
Grazie wrote on 11/25/2005, 1:14 AM

Bob - thanks.

So an Audio "copy" does not include the information that relates to its original Video partner, to then remain in synch. I'd expect that a "copy" would contain this info, maybe others here would have too? Having the "option" to improve the audio thru' a simple right click is a very powerful option. So, at the very least this is a warning, I guess?

. .hmmm... would be neat if this was considered by our Sony colleagues?

Grazie

farss wrote on 11/25/2005, 1:26 AM
Afraid a warning is all it can be.
If I carfully sync up an audio recording with a video track there's no way that I know of to make Vegas treat them as something special. Yes I can group them but that's it.
Having grouped my one hour recording if I proceed to split them guess what, the portion to the left of the split stays grouped but not the portion to the right. Try cutting a bit out with Ripple Exterminate on, whee, major mess if you're not careful. If Ripple is off, then I have to delete the video portion and then the audio track and then do one of a number of things to get the remainder of the two tracks slid up.
I'm dreading the day I have to edit a 4 camera shoot with 16 audio tracks of live audio.
Bob.
filmy wrote on 11/25/2005, 5:33 AM
>>>Also one should be able to lock multiple A and V track such that short of deliberately unlocking them they are ALWAYS treated as a single object.<<<

Oh yes...yes!!

This was a major letdown when I first tried Vegas Video back in version 2 and now I sort of just "accept" it but when I go back and work with Premiere it hits me hard, the lack of "grouping", that Vegas does not have. To me one of the great ironies is that Premiere/Premiere Pro has such a weak audio side yet the whole audio/video sync thing is so much stronger.

As for Grazies quesiton - there is no sync/out of sync signs when using audio from any "outside" source. Example is the traditional method of recording audio on a nagra or Dat and than syncing up the dailies. While you can do this with Vegas you certianly can not "lock" the two together and move the elements around as "one' without worries that somethg will go out of sync. This was somewhat of a headache on the feature I cut - it had a mixture of stuff - footage that was shot on video, footage that was shot on film with audio having the synced and ADR that had to be brought in and put in sync. I can't even begin to tell you how many times stuff slipped out of sync.